Maddening performance issues while capturing VHS

[dmc1793]

System:

- AMD Athlon64 3500+ w/ Asus a8v
- Western Digital SATA 160 GB 7200RPM w/ 8MB cache
(WinXP[sp2, fully updated] on C: [10GB], Everything else on D: [139 GB])
- 1024MB DDR400 PC3200 Kingston KVR Ram (2x 512MB)
- ATI x800 Pro 256MB (AGP)

I am trying to capture VHS via an ADS Pyro A/V Link (API-550 Rev. C) and am literally dropping more frames than I am recording. I am using s-video and RCA cables from the VCR to the ADS box, then firewire out to my PC.

Even with the video and audio preview disabled, even with Enditall terminating every process it can, even with defragged, error-free drives, even with msconfig disabling everything non-microsoft and a fresh boot (to boot), the end result is horribly studdered and choppy. My drives are virus and spyware free and I am running off a full format of less than 2 weeks ago.

I have tried capturing with Adobe Premiere Pro, Windows Movie Maker, WinAVI Video Capture, even the simple WMCAP.exe. I am getting the SAME performance problems with each, making it obvious that it's something within my system that's not clicking the way it should.

I have searched this forum for days and put to practice every remotely plausible suggestion I've run into. I am at my wits end. I'm sure you've all been there at some point - this is it for me.

Maybe it's even the ADS box... Check:

- I read somewhere that Rev. C of the API-550 required an internal hardware upgrade, or 'flash' from ADS directly...

- I use the device via plug-and-play with no manufacturers software (lost the installation CD long ago), but throrough searches in driver databases turn up nothing - even from ADS's own site...

Au secours.

[Taurus]

Just out of curiosity:
DMA Modus enabled for harddisk?
What resolution during ripping?
What codec? Try huffyuv or picvideo!
Firewire patch from Microsoft needed?
Try Virtualdub(mod) or Virtualvcr.
Power saving disabled?
Sreensaver?

You can see, a lot of questions (and answers).
I had the same mental boring symptoms a long time ago with another outboard box,
switched to pci inboard capturing card, and voila' all troubles are gone.

Cheers

Taurus

[dmc1793]

Just out of curiosity:
DMA Modus enabled for harddisk?
What resolution during ripping?
What codec? Try huffyuv or picvideo!
Firewire patch from Microsoft needed?
Try Virtualdub(mod) or Virtualvcr.
Power saving disabled?
Sreensaver?

DMA Enabled on both drives.
740x480, 29.97fps (NTSC)
Am unsure of the codec (equally unsure how to check)
Unsure about firewire patch, but do not see it as available in Windows Updates (will check that out)
Power saving / screen saver both disabled

I've tried Virtualdub, cannot get it to preview or capture the feed. Same with Virtualvcr. Both come highly reccomended, but apparently I am not configuring them properly. This probably ties in with my ignorance on the subject of codecs. I do know that I've downloaded and installed huffyuv, but have never been given an option to utilize it with Adobe Premiere or any of the other capturing programs I've tried.

At any rate, I think the problem lies in the actual capture. Using 5 different capturing programs and getting the same studdering and freezing (the momment the 'preview' plays my entire system becomes nigh unresponsive) with each tells me that the conflict is something bigger than the settings of a capturing program.

I'm dying a slow death here...!

Dan

[tedkunich]

Maybe it's even the ADS box... Check:

- I read somewhere that Rev. C of the API-550 required an internal hardware upgrade, or 'flash' from ADS directly...

- I use the device via plug-and-play with no manufacturers software (lost the installation CD long ago), but throrough searches in driver databases turn up nothing - even from ADS's own site...

Au secours.


The ADS box is a firewire conversion box - the PC's impact on "capturing" is limited to keeping an open channel on the IEE1394 port and writing the recieved data to the HD. What application are you using to "capture" the video? Does the preview shudder or drop frames? I would suspect that the problem is rooted in ADS not syncing with the VHS deck. The ADS <-> PC connection is just a file transport and is rarely influenced by PC performance...

Things to check would be:

- IEEE1394 "capture" application - I have used both DVApp and DVIO with success using the ADS and a "OLD" Celeron PC without any dropped frames.
- ADS firmware
- Some process hogging bandwidth on the PC
- If the IEE1394 is on a PCI card, move it to another INT that is not shared by the SATA controller - have heard that some SATA controllers have caused problems in the past with capturing.


Good luck

T

[dmc1793]

Alright I gave DVapp a shot, seems to be a very bare-bones capturing app (just how I like it). No dice. Same studdering. In the preview or during the capture makes no difference.

I disabled the audio, the video still studders.

I disabled the video, the audio still studders.

I disabled the preview entirely and blindly pressed "record" with the VCR playing, the resulting *.avi was rife with stops and studders.

Finally, just to really see how bad things were, I decreased my capture and preview resolution to A QUARTER (180X120) and HALVED the fps, thinking "my Pentium 75 of 10 years ago could handle this". Same studdering and sporadic freezing.

I ordered an Electrohome video stabilizer to see if that helps... But until that arrives, I want to rule out as many other possibilities as I can.

Ted, would you be kind enough to elaborate on:

A) how I might check the firmware of my ADS box
B) how I might determine if my IEE1394 is on a PCI card (I believe it is plugged directly into my Asus a8v MoBo), and a "for dummies" explanation of moving it to another INT (along with explaining what an INT is...) which is not shared by the SATA controller (ditto).

Many thanks. Many.

[tedkunich]

Alright I gave DVapp a shot, seems to be a very bare-bones capturing app (just how I like it). No dice. Same studdering. In the preview or during the capture makes no difference.

I disabled the audio, the video still studders.

I disabled the video, the audio still studders.

I disabled the preview entirely and blindly pressed "record" with the VCR playing, the resulting *.avi was rife with stops and studders.

Finally, just to really see how bad things were, I decreased my capture and preview resolution to A QUARTER (180X120) and HALVED the fps, thinking "my Pentium 75 of 10 years ago could handle this". Same studdering and sporadic freezing.

I ordered an Electrohome video stabilizer to see if that helps... But until that arrives, I want to rule out as many other possibilities as I can.

Ted, would you be kind enough to elaborate on:

A) how I might check the firmware of my ADS box
B) how I might determine if my IEE1394 is on a PCI card (I believe it is plugged directly into my Asus a8v MoBo), and a "for dummies" explanation of moving it to another INT (along with explaining what an INT is...) which is not shared by the SATA controller (ditto).

Many thanks. Many.


Different PCI slots share a common low level interrupt (BIOS level calls). If you have too high a throughput on the PCI devices, there may not be enough bandwidth for the BIOS to process both devices reliably. If the firewire or SATA controller is a PCI card (i.e. not built into the MB), try moving it to another slot. If it is built-in, you are prety much out of luck with that approach.

The fact that your preview studders, indicates that the problem lies either in the ADS or in the firewire path (writting data out to HD is out of the equation). My guess is that it is in the ADS. Have you tried connecting the ADS to another source? i.e. a DVD player or a cable/sat box? I know that I was able to connect a LD source and "capture" at 720x480 and not drop a frame for the entire 1hour capture cycle - so the device is capable of doing so. My guess it has to do with source levels or it could be a defective unit.

I don't have an ADS box (had borrowed on about a year ago for that short project), so I would not be able to help you determine the F/W version. Have you tried contacting ADS directly?

T

[dmc1793]

Sent ADS 2 emails yesterday, from what I've read about their product support I'm not holding my breath for any divine intervention.

At least you fellas have helped me narrow the problem down - either it's VHS instability or a faulty ADS box. With the video stabilizer on it's way I'll find out soon enough.

I'll be sure to update, but in the meantime I can't thank you guys enough.

Dan

[jggimi]

...either it's VHS instability or a faulty ADS box...or you may be able to swictch PCI card slots around, per Ted's suggestion.

[Revgen]

@dmc1793

What VGA card do you have.

My GeForce 6800 Ultra doesn't work well with fastwrites enabled when in 3D mode or in capture mode. However, come to think of it, I've never had a problem in preview mode with Fastwrites enabled, so this may not be the case. The stuttering only occurs in the finished clip.

[dmc1793]

jggimi: My setup has 2 firewire inputs, 1 on the front of the tower, 1 on the back. I assume they both plug into my motherboard. I've tried both, with equal results.

Revgen: I have an ATI Radeon x800 Pro 256MB (AGP). Do you think I'll reduce the issues I'm having if I play with the settings?

[jggimi]

Yes, googling shows that there is a firmware upgrade available from ADS, but ....

as this is really not an analog capture device .... by the time it gets to the PC it should behave like standard DV on FireWire. I'm moving this to the DV forum, perhaps someone there is more familiar with the device and your troubles.

[Revgen]

Revgen: I have an ATI Radeon x800 Pro 256MB (AGP). Do you think I'll reduce the issues I'm having if I play with the settings?

You might be able to. I'm not sure I since I don't have a Radeon. All I know is what worked with my Nvidia card.

Turning off fastwrites shouldn't cause any problems, so I'd say that it wouldn't hurt to give it a try. If it doesn't work, then just turn it back on.

[CirTap]

Hi,
I'd second switching the PCI, and: have you tried to play the "blind recording" on another PC?
Try another "blind capture", with video preview off, capture a minute or so with Huffyuv codec (if you found out how) and play that file on another computer.

It may sound dumb, but I had some similar trouble on a new PC with the very same ATI card, and every app previewing any existing + perfect AVIs studdered, or the app crashed. I updated the Catalyst driver and: no probs.

I was able to capture "blind" as you did, and the AVI *did* play fine on my laptop, but not the PC that captured the video, just because of the display driver.

Give it a try, and Good Luck!!

CirTap

[klevin]

Here are a few other thoughts.

- disable any antivirus during your capture. Some, like Norton, can read every disk write and trash performance.

- You really need to get the correct driver for your card. Did you check windows device manager for any warnings? Did you let windows search for a better driver?

[jpeshek]

If you are using Enditall to disable all services not needed, then your antivirus should not be the issue. Make sure that it is disabling your antivirus, because that can be a big problem in capture. In device manager make sure everything is ok. Rest assured, your computer has almost twice the horsepower mine does, and that is not the problem. You should be able to capture in DV or MPEG-2 with no sweat. Did the video stablizer help at all?

[LocalH]

I think it's just an issue with some of the earlier A/V Link products with regard to a signal as unstable as VHS. I own the same product (except mine is a rev B) and I have the same issues, but with a stable signal (such as cable box or game console output), the device is rock-solid. If you stabilize the signal then you shouldn't have any problems at all. Alternately, look into the firmware update - I have yet to do so as I don't capture much VHS, but if it claims to rectify the issue with capturing unstable signals, then it's worth looking into.