WMA does not play 5.1

[redfordxx]

I have windows media video with wma 5.1. But the codec WMAudio Decoder DMO v.10.0.0.3646 does not want to play 5.1 --- only 2.0.
Applies on both BSPlayer and Graphedit.

MPC plays it fine. But, pls don't say, use MPC then.

I reinstalled comp now and the problem was before and after the reinst.

[bond]

hm there was discussion about a limitation which always caused the decoder to downsmix to stereo
was it if you use it outside a m$ player? dunno but propably something evil :search:

[SeeMoreDigital]

The question also needs to be asked what method of connection you are using to your speaker system. Is it analogue or digital?

If you are connecting via digital (SPDIF) to an external amplifier/speaker combo. Are you aware that 99.99% of amps can't process/decode 6Ch (5.1) WMA streams?


Cheers

[redfordxx]

If you are connecting via digital (SPDIF) to an external amplifier/speaker combo. Are you aware that 99.99% of amps can't process/decode 6Ch (5.1) WMA streams?

I use SPDIF, but I believe the WMADec should output 5.1 PCM or what ... and the soundcard encodes it to Dolby Digital.

But I have only 2.0 PCM output and need Matrix Mixer to create 6ch again.

@bond: If you meant Multichannel audio WMP 9.0 in Windows2K thread...
Maybe M$ is not only blocking W2K but also other players than WMPlayer. Only MPC looks similar to WMP and WMADecoder doesn't recognize it's different, so it nicely plays 5.1. In case of BSP or GraphEdit --- Stereodownmix. If that makes sense... probably not.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I use SPDIF, but I believe the WMADec should output 5.1 PCM or what ... and the soundcard encodes it to Dolby Digital I have not heard of any sound cards offering "real-time" 6Ch WMA Pro to 6Ch AC3 transcoding!

However, all sound cards with an SPDIF output should be able to down-mix and puke out an 2Ch PCM (and/or Pro-Logic style) signal from an 6Ch WMA Pro, etc signal.... Which is what I think you are hearing!

In essence, if you are using an external amplifier/speaker set-up, the only sure fired way you can hear "discrete" 6Ch WMA audio correctly is to either connect via your PC's 6Ch analogue outputs or to use some form of "to-AC3" transcoding software. Such as provided by AC3 Filter of FFdshow.

Or you could buy yourself one of Pioneer's new VSX range of amplifiers.... You have around 4No to choose from ;)


Cheers

[redfordxx]

I have not heard of any sound cards offering "real-time" 6Ch WMA Pro to 6Ch AC3 transcoding!Well I don't insist it should be done all by soundcard, but I never thought could be technical problem.
Every sound in my computer is realtime encoded to DolbyDigital and sent to receiver, I supposed until now. Or the communication via SPDIF is not DD? Uncompressed PCM?

Anyway decoding wma should be done by the codec, not the card.
And that is the crucial point, I don't see what help should be analog when I have 2ch output.

And last, but not least: I don't have analog input on my amp. only coax and optical :p

[redfordxx]

However, all sound cards with an SPDIF output should be able to down-mix and puke out an 2Ch PCM (and/or Pro-Logic style) signal from an 6Ch WMA Pro, etc signal.... Which is what I think you are hearing!Well, this is really what I can hear, but the downmix is done by WMADec. The proof is, that when I connect AC3Filter to WMADec, I see on the properties page that the input is 2ch and only AC3Filter makes it 6ch. In BSP. In MPC, the output of WMADec and input to AC3Filter is 6ch. And I may say after watching AC3Filter's input osciloscope for a while, that it is independent.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Well, this is really what I can hear, but the downmix is done by WMADec. The proof is, that when I connect AC3Filter to WMADec, I see on the properties page that the input is 2ch and only AC3Filter makes it 6ch. In BSP. In MPC, the output of WMADec and input to AC3Filter is 6ch. And I may say after watching AC3Filter's input osciloscope for a while, that it is independent.Which media player were you using again, when you discovered you could only hear "down-mixed" audio?

By-the-way, when you play the 6Ch WMA streams in Windows Media Player 9/10. What application do you see when you click on: Tools -> Options -> DVD - Advanced.

And, like I mentioned earlier, tools such as AC3 filters and FFdshow can be configured to transcode and puke out AC3 streams.

I just happen to be using FFDshow to do this. And it's currently configured to transcode AAC, MP3, WAV, WMA and a few other stream types to AC3. And it seems to be working fine with MPC, WMP9/10


Just tried with with GraphEdit though: -

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1919/ffdshow6rk.png

And although it is possible to build a graph with FFdshow, the output is (downmixed) only 2 channel.... weird


Cheers

[redfordxx]

Which media player were you using again, when you discovered you could only hear "down-mixed" audio?BSPlayer
By-the-way, when you play the 6Ch WMA streams in Windows Media Player 9/10. What application do you see when you click on: Tools -> Options -> DVD - Advanced.I haven't used it since the time I use WXP, not yet installed. Maybe I will have to...
And, like I mentioned earlier, tools such as AC3 filters and FFdshow can be configured to transcode and puke out AC3 streams. That is possible but 5.1-->2.0-->5.1 is not ideal
I just happen to be using FFDshow to do this. And it's currently configured to transcode AAC, MP3, WAV, WMA and a few other stream types to AC3. And it seems to be working fine with MPC, WMP9/10 and GraphEdit: -
Are you sure, that the connection from WMADDMO to ffdshow Audio Dec is 5.1? If so, can you please send the properties of the pin or something what I can compare with mine?

[SeeMoreDigital]

BSPlayer
I haven't used it since the time I use WXP, not yet installed. Maybe I will have to... I was just interestd to know what might have been in there!

That is possible but 5.1-->2.0-->5.1 is not idealFFdshow does not down-mix to 2 channels!


Are you sure, that the connection from WMADDMO to ffdshow Audio Dec is 5.1? If so, can you please send the properties of the pin or something what I can compare with mine? You're right... WMA Dec DMO seems to lock-down its codec and puke out just 2 channels in GraphEdit.... Strange, as it does not do this outside of GraphEdit

[SeeMoreDigital]

Try this "discrete" 6Ch WMA Speaker Mapping Test File (http://81.98.148.105/Uploaded_Files/Doom9_Forum_files/6Ch_WMA_Pro.zip).

I can assure you with FFdshow there's no down-muxing to 2 channels in any of my media players ;)

[redfordxx]

FFdshow does not down-mix to 2 channels!Not FFDShow but WMADDMOWMA Dec DMO seems to lock-down its codec and puke out just 2 channels in GraphEdit.... It seems to me that since now we are talking about the same world


Strange, as it does not do this outside of GraphEdit
You say not outside GraphEdit...
The other option is that it is always outside WMP. And MPC cheats it somehow so it works. (maybe someone who uses diferent player than WMP, MPC, BSP can check it)

[redfordxx]

I can assure you with FFdshow there's no down-muxing to 2 channels in any of my media players ;)No argue. If FFDShow or AC3Filter or whatever else could play reliably WMA9Pro 5.1, I would gladly kick WMADDMO out of my WinXP. But the audio goes to FFDShow from WMADDMO ---same as in your graph.

[SeeMoreDigital]

The GraphEdit situation is certainly strange. I wonder if that's why the "WMA Dec DMO" box is green? :confused:

I've got to say though, although I like AC3 Filter (and beta tested some of Valex's private builds), I've been far happier using FFDshow.


Cheers

[redfordxx]

The GraphEdit situation is certainly strange.M$ marketing?I've got to say though, although I like AC3 Filter (and beta tested some of Valex's private builds), I've been far happier using FFDshow.Why? Good to learn some reason to maybe change.(I use it for AAC)

But I like the mixing options and color osciloscopes in AC3Filter (I can at first glance distinguish whether is something wrong with number of channels :)

There is new post... http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103069 I wonder whether it would work with wma 5.1

[SeeMoreDigital]

(I use it for AAC) This is why use FFDshow for ;)

FFDshow can decode AAC audio streams and transcode them to AC3 in one application. AC3 Filter requires you to install/use a separate AAC decoder... which I found can cause some slight audio delays.

I asked Valex a few times to add AAC decoding but he does not see it as a priority.... Which I think is a shame :(

But I like the mixing options and color osciloscopes in AC3Filter (I can at first glance distinguish whether is something wrong with number of channels :) That's why I provided a whole bunch of 6Ch "Speaker Test" files on my web site.


Cheers

[redfordxx]

So now, watch out. I listened to your test file.
We already agreed that WMADDMO downmixes in Graphedit and BSP.
MPC was ok.
VLC plays separate channels BUT only LF and RF were in correct speakers!
Maybe someone should be informed...

[SeeMoreDigital]

So now, watch out. I listened to your test file.
We already agreed that WMADDMO downmixes in Graphedit and BSP.
MPC was ok.
VLC plays separate channels BUT only LF and RF were in correct speakers!
Maybe someone should be informed...VLC it an "enclosed" player, ie: it does not automatically connect itself to external filters!

I have not delved into the inner settings of VLC, so I don't know whether it can be configured to perform WMAPro to AC3 transcoding.

As I'm also not familiar with BSPlayer, for all I know you have to tweak some filters in there too... before it can do as you want.