Help regarding HDTV performance problem on a pc

[Mentalmummy]

I have an Athlon 64 2800+ with 1 Gb DDR400 RAM, 160 GB ATA 133 hard drive and Nvidia FX5200 Personal cinema AGP card with 128 mb RAM running on a PC CHIPS M860 motherboard with a 400 Watt PSU.

My Xbox plays 720p hdtv footage fine but the Athlon, even under XP 64 although I usually use standard 32 bit XP, plays even 720p hdtv sources stutteringly - picture stops every ten secs or so and audio cuts on and off almost every four seconds.

1080i is even worse. I`ve had the chip running at XP3000 speeds to check if it is a cpu speed issue and it made no difference - does anyone have any ideas as to whether this setup should be able to play hdtv. I am using the microsoft demo samples to test playback.

I`m sure it should work.

I have tried using Windows Media player (I have Direct 9 installed), VLC and ZoomPlayer. Windows Media Player performs best of the three for the samples I have tried.

I haven`t lots of stuff running at the same time, just Outpost Pro, Nod32 AV software, Niveus PC remote controller software, Speedtouch USB controller and Nvidia media centre (controls gfx card settings) which sit in the system tray.

I checked with Sisoft diagnostic and I still have 710 Mb free RAm even with this plus Sisoft and Firefox running so I think it isn`t a RAM problem.

Benchmark tests against a reference cpu of Athalon 64 3000+ show my cpu about 300 MiPS quicker and compared to P4 3Ghz is about 200 MiPs slower if that helps.

Can anyone recommend a program that may work better?

Apologies for long post but I know that it helps to know as much on a problem as possible :)

[Nocturno]

try mediaplayer classic, and install nvidia purevideo decoder.

[Pookie]

Whoops. Just re-read your post. Are you testing those WMVHD files from Microsoft's website ? They're pretty CPU intensive. NVIDIA's PureVideo software works well and is only $20, but you need an Nvidia 6000 series card for it to drop CPU utilization. Won't do it on a 5200.

[charleski]

You should have no problems playing WMVHD videos with your setup. It sounds like there's something going on with the rendering. Open the file in Zoom Player, click on Filter Properties and tell us what's listed.

[Mentalmummy]

Using Zoom player if I highlight the filter properties it says Video Mixing renderer 9 and also Default direct sound device.

The gfx card has a DVI output and says it handles hdtv so I hope it actually does. I don`t have a high def tv so am testing via my monitor (obviously with screen resolution appropriate for hdtv sources).

Nocturno - I think the NDVD software included with the card installs the decoder but I`ll check it out and if not will try that.

Thankyou all for the suggestions, will keep trying :)

[charleski]

Try opening Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del) and looking at what your CPU utilisation is like while playing a clip.

[Mentalmummy]

Try opening Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del) and looking at what your CPU utilisation is like while playing a clip.

When playing the 1080i dolphin sample it varies between 88 and 97 (maximum) percent. 761 Mb RAM free and 470 Mb of the page file used.

720 uses average 90% up to 94% cpu usage with 732 Mb RAM free and 273 Mb of the page file used.

Perhaps if I was able to make Windows use more of the memory and not the pagefile that would help as it would presumably mean less hard drive access.

CPU usage seems very high, looks like maybe 64 bit xp2800 isn`t man enough for the job, which is annoying as I like AMD`s and can`t afford a faster chip.

Before I risk changing pagefile settings, does anyone know if doing so would cause any big problems or lockups in XP Pro?

Thanks.

EDIT: I`ve looked at some other properties and found that in Zoom Player 1080i is achieving an average framerate of just 10 fps. No wonder it jerks :(

Tried Windows Media Player Classic but it says there is no decompressor available and when it connects to microsoft says no codec found there either for wmv.

[charleski]

When playing a 1080p wmv clip on my 3GHz P4 I get a utilisation of 60-65%. I can't believe that a 64-bit Athlon 2800 would be all that much slower.

If Media Player is complaining, it's possible that something has become messed up with your setup. try re-installing WMP, and possibly DirectX as well.

[laserfan]

I've finally found a PC player that plays my HD captures without hiccups and with perfect lip sync--the Elecard MPEG Player. I also looked at the couple of WMVHD clips I have, one of which is DRM, and they both play fine also.

I have a 3.2GHz P4 but up til this program I'd not found anything that plays smooth. Give it a try--free trial download and $20 after 3 weeks I think (I'm still in trial).

[Mentalmummy]

Elecard plays with no audio and stops every eight seconds or so for about half a second.

I tried the proper older WMP and the MediaPlayer Classic from sourcefourge but both wont play wmv saying it has no decompressor despite having isnatlled the codecs from Microsofts website :mad:

I`m considering getting one of the 6000 series cards just to enable hd decoding. Does anyone know if only the higher end ones will decode from the graphics card chip, freeing up some cpu usage, or whether any 6000 series Nvidia card will do as I have seen some Nvidia 6200 cards for as low as £40.

Thanks.

[spolja]

Try with cyberlink decoder. When playing in MPC with internal decoder, CPU usage is 100% but when I play clip with cybelink decoder (enabled hardware acceleration) usage is about 15-25% (MPEG2 1080 i).
Btw, I have Athlon XP 2500+, 512 MB RAM, ATI X800XT VGA.

P.S. WMV HD clips play fine with Windows media player (~80% cpu usage)

[Pookie]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce6_techspecs.html

[Mentalmummy]

I have Power DVD 6 and as far as I know that includes the decoder. If I use the Power DVD software cpu usage is 100% and everything freezes up if I even catch the mouse or a background process does anything so unless the decoder mentioned is something different it looks like 2800 isn`t going to handle it.

Regarding the 6000 cards - thanks for the link. Looks like even cheaper ones will handle the hdtv and so when I have some more money maybe I will get one of them though I only just bought my 5200.

Spolja - looks like your gfx card has a hdtv decoder which would explain why you can do hdtv and I can`t :(

[spolja]

@Mentalmummy

:D I know :D

Sorry for that.

As far as I know, your CPU should handle HDTV, it has enough power. The problem is in your filter settings. I've just tried to disable Media player classic's mpeg2 splitter and use ffdshow. CPU usage dropped down to 85-90 % (that's without gfx hardware acceleration). Clip plays fine. You should try.

Sorry for my bad english.

[laserfan]

...As far as I know, your CPU should handle HDTV, it has enough power. The problem is in your filter settings...This doesn't explain why Elecard didn't work though--it should have I think (MM yr audio problem probably needs AC3 filter).

Is your hdd severely fragmented perhaps?

[SeeMoreDigital]

When doing tests like this, it's probably a good idea for you all to use the same source file!

Just a thought ;)


Cheers

[Mentalmummy]

Well I bought a 256 Mb Geforce 6200A 8xAGP card and it makes not a tiny bit difference despite supposedly handling all wmv high def stuff on the card and so my cpu usage is still flat out.

It hasn`t as good outputs as my Fx5200 but cost me 20 pounds more and all because I want to play HD :(

Can anyone assist in how to get a 6200A to play hd stuff (pretty please)?

Thanks :)

In case anyone wants to check what I am playing in case I have a setting screwy I shall stick to testing with the T2 demo from the Microsoft site.

EDIT:
MY HD isn`t fragmented, brand new fresh and installed this month and checked - will try ffdshow. It seems Nvidias onboard chips will only work using the Nvidia Purevideo decoder which you have to buy seperately. They should if thats true say so as I cannot use it.

Windows shows it is installed but I can`t configure it and nothing uses it :mad:

[Pookie]

To Force the Nvidia Codecs to be used, install Media Player Classic.
View-Options-Filters-Overrides-Add Filter (the Nvidia ones), then click "Prefer" on each one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
If that doesn't help -

Here are a list of things to try in order to better identify the source of the problem. This will be like shooting a bird with a shotgun, but it won't do any harm in your case.

* First, download RDILLY to make a registry backup BEFORE you try anything else. This is the easiest RegBackup Util ever invented *

http://www.joejoesoft.com/rd.php

* Next, Create a Restore Point in XP so you can recover from any unexpected results from the apps below *

1) Check out the drivers at AMD's Website http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_871_9706,00.html

This one looks applicable: http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/utilities/amdcpu.exe

2) Download and Set Up FSAutoStart. This app will temporarily turn off all of your unneeded apps and services, then try playing the file.
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/FSAutoStart.shtml
http://www.kensalter.com/fsautostart/howtouse.htm

3) Related to 2, disable all of your Anti Virus and Spyware Scan apps

3) Install the Oct 05 DirectX 9.0c latest files http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/d/a/3da1fee0-ccfe-4a18-b7d2-421f2d664008/directx_9c_oct05sdk_redist.exe

4) Update Your Bios http://www.pcchips.com.tw/PCCWeb/Downloads/ProductsDetail_Download.aspx?DetailID=308&DetailName=BIOS&DetailDesc=M860(v1.0)&MenuID=35&LanID=2

5) Make certain your drives are running in DMA mode.

6) Download Mplayer from Celtic_Druid and try to play the 720p from the command line - mencoder.exe yourfile.mpg . You'll get no audio, but check if your video playback is smooth. If it is, then you could have an interrupt conflict on your audio device.

7) Install Spybot Search and Destroy. Download the updates. Restart PC in Safe Mode. Run Spybot in Safe Mode.

8) Uninstall all unused apps. Keep disk space in use to less than 75%.

-That's about it for starters. If none of these work, then you'll need to see how your system bios is set up -

[spolja]

Can you post link for T2 demo? I have trouble finding it.

[Pookie]

http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/5/0/15092c6c-5af1-4208-b5e2-54af6f1009a4/T2_720.exe

[Mentalmummy]

Tried the above but no joy :mad:

Playback in MPC is exactly the same despite enabling as overrides all nvidia filters and decoders. Mplayer wouldn`t play the wmv and I haven`t an mpeg so will have to find one again and download a test, I don`t have the mentioned mplayer build but the latest stable release.

PureVideo decoder is found but just not used. I found a trial of the beta 2005 drivers and tried them but they have the same problem and I can`t figure a way to manually force installation of the purevideo decoders.

Tried to use ffdshow filters in MPC but the player still gets bogged down with 100% cpu usage.

I am puzzled, 6200 with onboard hd decoder and 256Mb GFX ram, on an Athlon 64 2800+ should definitely handle the file :(

[Pookie]

http://www.upload2.net/download2/sDSD5qjzf9RKbzB/720p.mpg.html

720p 59.94fps mpeg2

[Mentalmummy]

Tried that, thanks for the link.

Now I`m really miffed as my Xbox plays 720p but not my pc - stops and starts literally every two seconds. Am going to uninstall all nvidia stuff and try a fresh install of the forceware and decoder software.

[charleski]

Sorry to hear that getting a new video card didn't solve your problem, though I doubted it would. Have you tried re-installing DirectX?

Otherwise it's getting close to rm -rf * territory. :(

[Pookie]

http://www.3dchipset.com/forum/showthread.php?t=521&highlight=hdtv

Apparently, you need to have WMP10 installed for PureVideo to reduce CPU utilization

[Mentalmummy]

Finally, success - thankyou everyone :)

Uninstalled all Nvidia stuff, drivers and decoders. Restarted Windows and installed an older driver (forceware 78 instead of the newest 84).

720p played a minute jittery then fine in Zoomplayer so tried in WMP 10 and was fine. Installed Purevideo decoder trial and it works great now even on T2 1080i sample.

I took all the advice and also found on the net that older beta drivers like the 77 and 78 versions were better for hd so tried the various things combined and they work.

The wmv samples work great, cpu usage is still 100% for the T2 sample (dropping to about 80% sometimes) but I can move mouse about and close windows without noticing slowdown so seems fine.

Tried a small thirty second clip someone recorded from a public broadcast HDTV and cpu usage, even though that was 1080i, was never higher than fifty percent so seems it is just wmv eating up the cpu time.

Oddly though a 1080i sample I downloaded in mpeg format (not sure where now, found it on a disk and sample just says crawford_1080i_30mbps) plays slowly though.

But the wmv files seem to work so its off to download some hdtv trailers and test it out some more now.

Thanks (again), I was thinking it was a lost cause for a while there.

[charleski]

Gogo driver bugs! Glad to hear you sorted it out. I know the 81.95 and 78.01 drivers are WHQL certified, FWTW.

[Mentalmummy]

Thanks, I shall stick with the one I am using as it works for me.

I am suprised that changing a driver for an older one makes that much difference but at least it has shown me that Nvidia do still make good cards, and it is a cheap high def playback method :)

[Mentalmummy]

Actually on switching it on this morning I find it only plays wmv in wmp10 smoothly, everything else is defaulting back to using the cpu and not nvidia purevideo. With the wmv T2 sample pic is still fantastic but now audio is behind the video by about a second.

Other high def formats like .tp and .ts play in sync, I am happy to use wmp10 (though Zoomplayer is nicer) but any ideas why after rebooting audio on only wmv files is lagging?

EDIT: Turns out that the chip decoding is not working for wmv files so it is why my cpu usage is 100%. Can`t make purevideo decoder work on wmv only on standard hd mpeg2 files.

[Suchy]

Hi.
I have AMD64 2800+ (1,8 GHz), and GeForce 6600 GT (Leadtek).
I'm found nVidia PureVideo, and want to check this.
When I had installed the newest nVidia PV and reboot computer, everyting looked fine.
I can play MPEG2 in MPC (when I desable builded in MPEG2 filter) and in WMP10.
I had installed DirectX9c so I checked using VMR9 in options of nV PV (but in options MPC it's enabled too).

When I play a MPEG2 (witch interleave) I can notice horizontal lines during fading in/out scenes (not scenes in mention: chapters, but scenes in movie).
When I use MPEG2 filter builded in MPC it looks propertly. The same witch Mainconcept or Ligos decoders. Only when i use nVidia Pure Video it's happen.

P.S.
I tried set up all available types of deinterlacing.

Any ideas?