sony/layerbreak issue

[aujus]

i'm running into the sony/layerbreak issue with two older standalones (dvp-s330 and dvp-s360). no problems with playback on plextor and nec burners, xbox (samsung drive) or samsung standalone.

star wars 3
dvd rebuilder 0.96
hc 016 test release 2
movie only
preprocessed with shrink to trim start and end (no compression)

encoding a non-preprocessed at the moment to see if that's the problem. none of the other ideas from a search have worked.

[writersblock29]

@aujus

Even if your non-pre-processed source has issues, I'd still wonder whether it's layer-break-related. DVD Shrink will remove layer breaks on everything so long as this option is selected, so if a pause exists on your project even though it's been run through BOTH DVD Shrink as well as Rebuilder...

What behavior, exactly, are you seeing? Does the video freeze in certain areas? Sometimes bad burns or poor media will yeild those kind of results... for example, burning 4X media at 8X-12X. Labels sometimes add commotion all their own, too.

[GOPPER]

If you try DVD_REMAKE-PRO, you can hide blocks of the movie you don't need. Keep the previous and following bloks of the problem area.

You can make a backup then on a DVD-5.

I always use this procedure even if I want to check if there are irregularities in the original such as blocking and other problems.

If fact you 'cut away' VOB parts, so saving space with the HIDE BLOCKS in DVD-REMAKE-PRO.


Try to check the same point in the movie for layer-break issues, which in fact are timing issues as far as I know (SCR...).

The only time I saw a layer break was with much older version of DVD-RB and NOT having it trough DVDSHRINK, which I always use with o% compression to remove layerbreak.

This is an option in DVDSCHRINK so check if it's turned on.

Some players have a mechanism by which they handle the layerbreak in such a way it's not visible.

Some player you see a liltle pause/jump on the layer break, using official released DVD-9.

It is sometimes to see on the DISC box, saying something like:

"This is a DVD-9, so you can see an irregularity at a spot playng this title, this is normal and not a malfuncyion" or something like that written on the box.

Try and see.

Good luck !

Peter

[aujus]

the issue i'm having is 16 secs into chapter 23 where the timer will stop and then freeze on anakin a second later. the movie will never continue on it's own, but i can fast forward past the freeze and then play will continue just fine. the "remove layer break" option is checked in shrink.

sorry, i forgot to mention i am burning to dvd-5. i ran it through dvd remake cutting the start and stop, yet i still ran into the same problem.

[GOPPER]

That should be a sign of bad mastered source or some other problem, not related to layerbrake.....

Did you do a rip with DVD-DECRYPTOR's setting PATCH M2V TIMECODE (0:00:00) ???

That option is always enabled by me....

I thought all time-codes in M2V stream are set to 0:00:00 but i'm not sure of it, at least you can try.

Timecodes are later corrected when processing DVD files.

[aujus]

@GOPPER

yeah, Patch M2V Timecode was checked.

[laserfan]

I too am having a problem with some of my DVD-RB discs (DVD-5) in my Sony player, with pausing or freezing at precisely the (former) DVD-9 layer break position. I surfed my brains out on this issue, and one discussion I found here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102802) w/mpucoder had me trying VobEdit to look at the "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" but I couldn't find any such problems in my disc.

I tried simply to change the offending Cell's Type code from 10 to 8 (as the surrounding cells were 8), using PgcEdit, but that didn't work--still pauses in the same place. I can get past it if I FF a bit; but needless to say this is a nasty interruption in the playback experience. Oddly, it has only happened on a couple of the many RB backups I've made.

I guess I will next try to change the Cell Type again, this time checking STC discontinuity only (2) but have a low confidence level that this will work. Can anyone suggest what might be going on?

[laserfan]

Ok, I changed the Cell Type from 10 to 2 (only STC Discontinuity checked) but while the DVD now plays thru the "Layer Break" there is a very brief still & audio gap as if it were a real layer break.

Changing the Cell Type to 2 only also auto-checked the Layer Break box in PgcEdit--can't be unchecked apparently.

Would love to know what causes this behavior and how to fix it. I never had any problems with "Remove Layer Break" in DVD Shrink.

[jdobbs]

You pretty much have to have the STC discontinuity flag set at the former layer break -- as you'll find that most of the time the first VOBID in the second layer resets the SCR to zero.

[HKT3020_1]

I too am having a problem with some of my DVD-RB discs (DVD-5) in my Sony player, with pausing or freezing at precisely the (former) DVD-9 layer break position. I surfed my brains out on this issue, and one discussion I found here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102802) w/mpucoder had me trying VobEdit to look at the "End PTM of VOBU if Sequence_End_Code" but I couldn't find any such problems in my disc.

I tried simply to change the offending Cell's Type code from 10 to 8 (as the surrounding cells were 8), using PgcEdit, but that didn't work--still pauses in the same place. I can get past it if I FF a bit; but needless to say this is a nasty interruption in the playback experience. Oddly, it has only happened on a couple of the many RB backups I've made.

I guess I will next try to change the Cell Type again, this time checking STC discontinuity only (2) but have a low confidence level that this will work. Can anyone suggest what might be going on?

I upgraded my old 120GB Seagate hard drive to a Western Digital 400GB hard drive and ever since then I've had no layer break issues on my Sony. The last disc I backed up on my old hard drive was Episode III and it showed the same problem as a few members here have posted. The layer break seems to happen when Anakin is talking with Palpatine in his chambers. The problem seems to happen more commonly on Sony DVD players and perhaps it was a bad batch of players making their way to store shelves or whatnot. :( I believe DvdReMake Pro has a option to enable seamless playback on areas where the layer break takes place but I haven't had any problems with it as of late so I had no use for it. :)

[jdobbs]

I could probably put in an option to prevent reset of the SCR (except on ILVU)... I'll take a look at it.

[laserfan]

...I believe DvdReMake Pro has a option to enable seamless playback on areas where the layer break takes place...I don't have that product but it seems to me when I searched the info on it, there wasn't any discussion of layer break.

I did find a comment somewhere about Sony and some other players being particularly "strict" about "playing by the rules" so to speak. Indeed, the disc that caused me to post this plays-back OK on another Panasonic player that I have.

I am just looking for a solution to the question of how to convert a former layer-break situation (in flag and cell and VOB construction) to play-back seamlessly on a single layer, as clearly even Sony players (!) are capable.

I don't want to go back to using Shrink, but it *is* kind of embarrassing to experience an unexpected stoppage in the middle of a movie, and have to fiddle forward & back to recover (losing some program material in the process).

[jdobbs]

If the problem is with DVD-RB, I can fix it. If it is with the Sony Player... there's not much I can do. So far I can't find anything wrong with DVD-RB... in fact, it seems to work correctly for me on every Sony player I've tested.

[laserfan]

Sorry jdobbs I don't mean to judge RB in any way--I'm just trying to understand simply what happens in DVD-9 to DVD-5 conversion that might be causing the Sony to hiccup at precisely those points in the new DVD-5.

I have only a vague notion about the needs of the layer break, there aren't tutorials that I can find using Google; I did read here on Doom9 that the real layerbreak is a byte sequence (from mpucoder) and apparently the Cell Type flags are set the way they are according to the needs of the DVD structure (your statement for example that the STC flag warns the player that the SCR is gonna be zeroed).

I doubt the Sony is buggy or bugged--it seems though of course that it expects a specific combo of bytes/STC flag/Seamless or non etc. that it's not getting with a converted DVD. If I could learn what this Magic might be then I could fix it before burning as (for example) now after processing w/DVD-RB I virtually always (using PgcEdit) set the main movie pgc for "jump to" status, and "kill playback" of any unwanted pgcs/cells either before or after. I could use it too to get the flags set right and make any hex edits needed.

I think I will make some tests, comparing at least the Cell Type flags between RB and Shrink, and whatever other tools I have already. Maybe that will tell us something...

[Sandman78]

I've used CloneDVD forever to pre-process and recently I found that if I use the "scissors" in CloneDVD to remove the credits or next episode preview (on episode DVD's)... then run thru DVDRB.... the end result will not play in my Sony DVP-NS315. The disc continuously jumps from what looks like chapter to chapter. However, the disc will play in my LG LDA-511 and all my other DVD players fine.

FWIW, if I were to go ahead and let CloneDVD transcode the movie after altering the chapters, and not run it thru DVDRB, the end result does play in my Sony.

The only reason I caught the problem was because one day last week I tested one of the discs in my Sony and discovered the problem. I didn't know if it was the Sony's problem or what, but I do use Sony players sometimes... so I looked back at the discs I had backed up this way and it ended up only being about 10 that I had to redo. Luckily I had only recently started experimenting with trimming chapters.

[eriksen76]

I've heard from one of my friends that there is a common issue with the REG2 "Scandinavian" version of Star Wars 3 doing the freeze thing at a special chapter point.

He read in several forums that there is a "problem" with that disc, and maby that's what causes the problems when doing a backup with DVDRB. It might be a small manufacturing error.

He has a very expensive setup (not Sony dvd player though) and he experience the freeze thing when playing the orignal dvd. It freezes longer than when having a normal layer break.

I myself haven't watched my backup, but some of my friends borrowed it, and they haven't reported any errors.

/Eriksen76

[laserfan]

...I think I will make some tests, comparing at least the Cell Type flags between RB and Shrink...Ok I made another, similar disc this time using Shrink (movie-only, or reauthor mode) and it sails thru the former layer break position just fine. No freezes, no pause or audio dropout as with RB.

A cursory look at the Cell Type flags (both 10, STC & Seamless checked) and the cells themselves (using VOBedit) and it's not obvious what might be different about the Shrink vs. the RB discs. Indeed, to a novice like myself I was surprised to see how much the two different discs "track" from a structural POV. But I will have to look some more to try to find what's different--any ideas of stuff to look at?

The "good news" is that the Shrink DVD looks terrible by comparison to the RB (I used HC and also did a 4:3lb to 16:9 anamorphic conversion). Man, Shrink compression (transcoding/whatever) at 60% looks crappy.

[HKT3020_1]

I don't have that product but it seems to me when I searched the info on it, there wasn't any discussion of layer break.

I did find a comment somewhere about Sony and some other players being particularly "strict" about "playing by the rules" so to speak. Indeed, the disc that caused me to post this plays-back OK on another Panasonic player that I have.

I am just looking for a solution to the question of how to convert a former layer-break situation (in flag and cell and VOB construction) to play-back seamlessly on a single layer, as clearly even Sony players (!) are capable.

I don't want to go back to using Shrink, but it *is* kind of embarrassing to experience an unexpected stoppage in the middle of a movie, and have to fiddle forward & back to recover (losing some program material in the process).

Here is a little snapshot I took (DvdReMake Pro), though I've never used the setting because I've had no use for it but perhaps Dimad can clarify on it's intended purpose. :sly:

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/4040/seamlessdvdremakepro2cr.gif

Well it seems I spoke too soon. It looks like I came across a 1-2 minute freeze at the layer break on Batman TAS Volume 4 Disc 2. It seems during the layer switch there is a 1 second discrepancy which causes the freeze on my Sony DVD player. I have to fast forward so it can continue playing. :(

[jdobbs]

Are you guys modifying anything at all? I mean, are you pre or post processing, changing values with IFOEDIT, running it through another package like Shrink before or after, etc.?

The reason I ask is that it sure sounds like something is playing with the clock value on the first cell of what used to be the second layer. Most of the time the SCR of the first NAVPACK of that cell will be set to a value of zero... and the discontinuity flag is set.

Also, have you tried setting the LAYER_BREAK_REMOVAL setting in the INI file to zero?

[Options]
LAYER_BREAK_REMOVAL=0

That will stop DVD-RB from doing any changes to the IFO related to the layer break.

[HKT3020_1]

Are you guys modifying anything at all? I mean, are you pre or post processing, changing values with IFOEDIT, running it through another package like Shrink before or after, etc.?

The reason I ask is that it sure sounds like something is playing with the clock value on the first cell of what used to be the second layer. Most of the time the SCR of the first NAVPACK of that cell will be set to a value of zero... and the discontinuity flag is set.

Also, have you tried setting the LAYER_BREAK_REMOVAL setting in the INI file to zero?

[Options]
LAYER_BREAK_REMOVAL=0

That will stop DVD-RB from doing any changes to the IFO related to the layer break.

No preprocessing done on Batman TAS V4 D2, however it does play fine on my younger siblings CyberHome CH-DVD 300, Samsung v1000 and the living room's Sony 975v. The only change made on the disc was with DVD-RB to remove a duplicate episode with commentary and foreign audio tracks, that's about it. :confused: