REAL Ultimate Guide to x264 and QuickTime!!!

[leban]

Cause: your source is 640x480, not 720x480. And it's yuv4mpeg, not raw yuv.
mencoder -ovc copy -of rawvideo klo5-6-f25-Ip.y4m -o klo5-6-f25-Ip.yuv

You are rirght about that size. I tried it again with the right size. still nothing. How did you figure out that it is yuv4mpeg?

It is made with: jpeg2yuv -b 0 -f 25 -I p -j webcam_%07d.jpg

But that could be the cause for the persistent problem.

[Randall]

Another thing, if you find that when you mux your audio and video with MP4Box QuickTime doesn't display the picture at all (no white box either) then try muxing again. I rarely run into this problem, but when I do, a second attempt at muxing solves it. Appears to be a completely random occurance.

[GarfBond]

OK, I'm having some terrible luck with Quicktime and x264 all of a sudden. x264 380, QT7 pro, latest versions of megui and profiles, as well as mp4box.

Here's the log from megui
Next job job1-1 is a video job. encoder commandline:
"C:\Program Files\x264\x264.exe" --pass 1 --bitrate 1208 --stats "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 1 --b-rdo --analyse none --me dia --progress --no-psnr --output NUL "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.avs"
successfully set up video encoder and callbacks for job job1-1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Log for job job1-1

avis [info]: 704x368 @ 23.98 fps (6764 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities MMX MMXEXT SSE SSE2
x264 [info]: slice I:58 Avg QP:20.78 size: 33740
x264 [info]: slice P:3360 Avg QP:22.07 size: 9008
x264 [info]: slice B:3346 Avg QP:24.30 size: 2842
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 37.8% 0.0% 62.2%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 13.2% 0.0% 0.0% P16..4: 44.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% skip:42.8%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 1.5% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 16.9% 0.0% 0.0% direct:10.1% skip:71.5%
x264 [info]: final ratefactor: 22.85
x264 [info]: kb/s:1183.4

Actual bitrate after encoding without container overhead: 1183.46

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
job job1-1 has been processed. This job is linked to the next job: job1-2
Next job job1-2 is a video job. encoder commandline:
"C:\Program Files\x264\x264.exe" --pass 2 --bitrate 1208 --stats "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 6 --b-rdo --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4 --progress --no-psnr --output "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.264" "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.avs"
successfully set up video encoder and callbacks for job job1-2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Log for job job1-2

avis [info]: 704x368 @ 23.98 fps (6764 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities MMX MMXEXT SSE SSE2
x264 [info]: slice I:58 Avg QP:19.81 size: 34766
x264 [info]: slice P:3360 Avg QP:21.12 size: 8968
x264 [info]: slice B:3346 Avg QP:23.11 size: 3099
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 41.4% 0.0% 58.6%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 6.5% 0.0% 7.9% P16..4: 23.5% 9.5% 6.4% 1.0% 0.6% skip:44.6%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.8% 0.0% 1.9% B16..8: 29.0% 2.4% 4.1% direct: 1.4% skip:60.3%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1205.7

Actual bitrate after encoding without container overhead: 1205.79
desired video bitrate of this job: 1208 kbit/s - obtained video bitrate: 1205.79234305855 kbit/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I muxed it using the latest version of MP4box and YAMB.

If you want to look at the end result, here it is: http://albert.stealthgenius.com/stuff/boundin.mp4. It'll be up in about 20 minutes after this post.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Randall]

You've been White Screen Of Deathed! WSOD sux0rs. Well, I would try it again without the --b-rdo RD based mode decision for B-frames QuickTime gets fussy about B frames. I don't believe you can have any more then 2 B-frames max. (QT Pro's own encoder only supports 1 B frame max, but I know that it's decoder can handle 2. May I suggest"x264.exe" --pass 1 --bitrate 1208 --stats "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 1 --analyse none --me esa --progress --no-psnr --output NUL "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.avs"

"x264.exe" --pass 2 --bitrate 1208 --stats "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 6 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4 --me esa --progress --no-psnr --output "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.mp4" "H:\INC0NNS1\boundin.avs"

I know for a fact that QT works without --b-rdo and without --me dia. I'm not sure if either of those 2 settings are causing your WSOD problem, but those 2 settings jump out at me as a possible suspect. Try my command line and see what happens. Also, I have had trouble with the latest version of MP4Box, but it is not a White Screen Of Death problem, so I don't think MP4Box is your problem here, most likely it's your x264 settings. Try encoding to an actual mp4 container rather then a raw file. I have had more success this way.

[Sharktooth]

both brdo and diamond search do not influence decoding in any way

[Randall]

both brdo and diamond search do not influence decoding in any way
Thanks for letting us know. Ok so I'm out of ideas as to why GarfBond's encode failed to render picture in QT then.
@GarfBond: Stick with Sharktooth's CE QuickTime profile and everything should be fine. It's in the sticky threads somewhere, and you need 7-zip to extract it.

Thanks for that profile Sharktooth. :goodpost:

[Sharktooth]

maybe it's a matter of bitrate variance?
i really dont know. it works for some users and it doesnt for others...

[akupenguin]

Umm I could be wrong, but if you have it set for main profile then that might be fine, but I assume 'all' to include 8x8 Intra Search (i8x8) and that is bad!! That will kill your QT compatibility in a big way. Somebody could correct me here if I'm wrong, because I am not positive if --analyse all specifies everything like it would imply. I specified exactly the options that we wanted, just to avoid any possibility of that confusion.

--analyse all includes i8x8 if and only if --8x8dct is also specified. (It's not a question of profile; cqm will also set high profile, but won't enable i8x8.)

[Randall]

Thanks for the info akupenguin. --analyse all == --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4
but typing --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4 makes me feel good inside. That way I know exactly what the hell it is doing.

[GarfBond]

Part of my problem is that I've been using Sharktooth's CE-Quicktime profile :(

Today I just tried it outputting to .MP4 instead of a raw AVC file, but that was a no-go. Simply viewing the resulting MP4 file in QT results in no video at all (not even a white box of doom). After muxing it with the AAC file the video still isn't playing and the audio continues to work just fine.

Probably the most frustrating part is that everything plays in MPC just fine and dandy while QT sits there looking dumb. Anyone got any ideas?

[Sharktooth]

GarfBond, can you please try the CE-Baseline profile and see il QT can "eat" it?

[Randall]

Part of my problem is that I've been using Sharktooth's CE-Quicktime profile :(

Today I just tried it outputting to .MP4 instead of a raw AVC file, but that was a no-go. Simply viewing the resulting MP4 file in QT results in no video at all (not even a white box of doom). After muxing it with the AAC file the video still isn't playing and the audio continues to work just fine.

Probably the most frustrating part is that everything plays in MPC just fine and dandy while QT sits there looking dumb. Anyone got any ideas?

yeah. I am positive that Sharktooth's QT profile works. I use it all the time. If you get no white box on your video only mp4 file, then it could be an MP4Box issue. I couldn't get the latest version of MP4Box working with QT, so I'm using an older version. Try version 0.4.1-DEV. That is the version I have. send me your email addy and I will mail it too you. It's 100kb too big to attach in the forum. (note: all of my successful QT encodes do not display any video at all on the video only stream. only after i mux it with the audio do I see any picture. I know it sounds weird.)

[Sharktooth]

QT is pricky even when parsing MP4s...

[bond]

did anyone actually already try to contact some apple devs and point them to all this mess so they get an idea that its time to fix their stuff?

[Sharktooth]

did anyone actually already try to contact some apple devs and point them to all this mess so they get an idea that its time to fix their stuff?
You know better than me apple devs doesnt have ears for listening to users...

[Randall]

You know better than me apple devs doesnt have ears for listening to users... Amen to that. I sent a bug report to them months ago about the ability to put a comment tag on an mpeg4 file in iTunes that's long enough (number of characters in comment field) to cause a buffer overflow and crash QuickTime if you open that file in QT. Always reproducable.

No fix for this yet. I'm sure it would be a matter of changing the size of one array or something extremely easy to fix. God forbid they actually fix it.

[bond]

You know better than me apple devs doesnt have ears for listening to users...not totally true

i, at the beginning of qt7, sent a bug report about qt7 to some apple maillist dealing with that and i got a response from a dev, but he basically didnt understand what i was saying aka ignoring my bug reports

anyways, this means they are reading the stuff the users report at least :D

[Sharktooth]

that's what i said... they dont "want" to listen... and if they do, they do it the quicktime way (b0rked).

[GarfBond]

Where are you guys sending these bug reports btw?

As for CE-Baseline, I did try that once and it also failed, which does sound pretty suspicious. Judging from one post, do you guys think that it's an MP4Box issue?

[Sharktooth]

maybe. update to the very latest mp4box.
a b0rked mp4box version caused me some problems with VLC also...

[bond]

before i blame mp4box to be wrong, i would definitely blame quicktime :D

[Randall]

before i blame mp4box to be wrong, i would definitely blame quicktime :D

Actually the latest version of MP4Box was the version that was giving me grief. I couldn't get any of my encodes that I knew should be QT compatable to run. The version of MP4Box that I use that always works is GPAC version 0.4.1-DEV. I would post it here if the file wasn't too big. I'm hesitent to blame MP4Box for any QT problems, but it is a little suspicous.

[bond]

Actually the latest version of MP4Box was the version that was giving me grief. I couldn't get any of my encodes that I knew should be QT compatable to run. The version of MP4Box that I use that always works is GPAC version 0.4.1-DEV. I would post it here if the file wasn't too big. I'm hesitent to blame MP4Box for any QT problems, but it is a little suspicous.what does "i couldnt get it to run" mean?

i muxed an apple encoded avc stream with latest mp4box to .mp4 and it played as always: totally crappily :D

[Randall]

I coudn't get it to run means that I got no picture box, not even the white screen of death!

>> i muxed an apple encoded avc stream with latest mp4box to .mp4 and it played as always: totally crappily :D <<

You say that jokingly, but even x264 at its Main profile is a superior result then XviD at highest settings. (Using the same bitrate of course).

[bond]

> i muxed an apple encoded avc stream with latest mp4box to .mp4 and it played as always: totally crappily :D <<

You say that jokingly, but even x264 at its Main profile is a superior result then XviD at highest settings. (Using the same bitrate of course).i said that to show you that latest mp4box has no problems with qt here

so your problem might not be caused by mp4box, but by using incompatible settings of any kind

[Randall]

i said that to show you that latest mp4box has no problems with qt here

so your problem might not be caused by mp4box, but by using incompatible settings of any kind

I find that case unlikely, as when I reverted to a previous version of MP4Box and tried to mux the same two steams again, it worked on QuickTime. Plus I was using the CE QuickTime Settings provided by Sharktooth.

[SenorKaffee]

I downloaded the last build from the thread and encoded a short piece of video with the CE-Quicktime setting. QT7 plays the video, but shows no output. There is no error message, but there is no video either.


AVISource("E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\1npe06_extrakt.avi")
ConvertToYV12



Next job job1-1 is a video job. encoder commandline:
"x264.exe" --pass 1 --bitrate 1000 --stats "E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\test.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 1 --analyse none --me dia --threads 2 --progress --no-psnr --output NUL "E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\test.avs"
successfully set up video encoder and callbacks for job job1-1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Log for job job1-1

avis [info]: 640x480 @ 25.00 fps (331 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities MMX MMXEXT SSE SSE2
x264 [info]: slice I:3 Avg QP:21.67 size: 35310
x264 [info]: slice P:161 Avg QP:26.31 size: 9400
x264 [info]: slice B:167 Avg QP:26.68 size: 2326
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 30.3% 0.0% 69.7%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 24.9% 0.0% 0.0% P16..4: 54.6% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% skip:20.5%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 1.6% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 29.4% 0.0% 0.0% direct: 6.0% skip:63.1%
x264 [info]: final ratefactor: 26.73
x264 [info]: kb/s:1213.2

Actual bitrate after encoding without container overhead: 1214.55

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
job job1-1 has been processed. This job is linked to the next job: job1-2
Next job job1-2 is a video job. encoder commandline:
"x264.exe" --pass 2 --bitrate 1000 --stats "E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\test.stats" --bframes 2 --subme 6 --b-rdo --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4 --threads 2 --progress --no-psnr --output "E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\1npe06_qtprofile.mp4" "E:\Bastelkram Auslagerung\test.avs"
successfully set up video encoder and callbacks for job job1-2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Log for job job1-2

avis [info]: 640x480 @ 25.00 fps (331 frames)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities MMX MMXEXT SSE SSE2
mp4 [info]: initial delay 1 (scale 25)
x264 [info]: slice I:3 Avg QP:23.33 size: 27521
x264 [info]: slice P:161 Avg QP:26.41 size: 7673
x264 [info]: slice B:167 Avg QP:27.53 size: 2066
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 33.4% 0.0% 66.6%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 13.1% 0.0% 13.3% P16..4: 35.2% 8.1% 3.0% 0.2% 0.1% skip:27.0%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.8% 0.0% 1.4% B16..8: 45.3% 1.2% 2.0% direct: 0.8% skip:48.5%
x264 [info]: kb/s:1004.9

Actual bitrate after encoding without container overhead: 1006.27
desired video bitrate of this job: 1000 kbit/s - obtained video bitrate: 1008.85135951662 kbit/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: http://www.fullmetalpantsu.de/diverses/1npe06_extrakt.avi
Output: http://www.fullmetalpantsu.de/diverses/1npe06_qtprofile.mp4

VLC Media Player has no problems, of course, but for once I want to encode a video that can be played on this player. ^^

[Randall]

Yes that is because you may need a previous build of MP4Box. Send me your email and I will mail it to you, because it's too large to post on this thread.

[bond]

the "not showing of video" after encoding with x264 to mp4 is caused by a bug in x264 signalling the video stream to be not present in the mp4, which leads to that qt doesnt display it
superdump already made a fix for this which is available here (http://www.swains.plus.com/x264/patches/x264_mp4_trackenabledflag.0.diff), so this will be fixed soon

remuxing such a x264 mp4 file with mp4box fixes this problem only when you are demuxing the stream to raw and than remuxing to .mp4
when doing a mp4 -> mp4 conversion with mp4box the "stream not present" flag doesnt get changed in recent cvs (with older ones it was done)

[bond]

the "not showing of video" after encoding with x264 to mp4 is caused by a bug in x264 signalling the video stream to be not present in the mp4, which leads to that qt doesnt display it
superdump already made a fix for this which is available here (http://www.swains.plus.com/x264/patches/x264_mp4_trackenabledflag.0.diff), so this will be fixed soon

remuxing such a x264 mp4 file with mp4box fixes this problem only when you are demuxing the stream to raw and than remuxing to .mp4
when doing a mp4 -> mp4 conversion with mp4box the "stream not present" flag doesnt get changed in recent cvs (with older ones it was done)ok r382 fixes this bug

[Randall]

great news! thanks bond.

[Randall]

I have updated the guide to include some homade filter scripts for Teleclined and Interlaced NTSC 29.97 FPS fullscreen formats for those of you that are interrested. They can be found on the first post of this thread. Enjoy. :cool:

[SenorKaffee]

Exported to RAW and muxed in MP4 again with YAMB - the video shows in QT7 now, I´m so happy. ^^

[Doom9]

*NOTE* there currently is a bug in MeGUI that will not properly encode automated 3-pass when turbo is checked off. To be certain you get a good encode, make sure that "turbo" is UNchecked, and set up each of the 3 passes seperately.That's not true. There never was any problem in fact, only people thinking there was one because the commandline preview didn't return what they thought it should. That has been changed now and the preview shows the results of the last pass. But turbo has always worked fine for many revisions before this thread was first created.

[Randall]

Exported to RAW and muxed in MP4 again with YAMB - the video shows in QT7 now, I´m so happy. ^^

That's not true. There never was any problem in fact, only people thinking there was one because the commandline preview didn't return what they thought it should. That has been changed now and the preview shows the results of the last pass. But turbo has always worked fine for many revisions before this thread was first created.

Good news all around. :)

[lordreign]

I dont know if anyone else has experienced this (and its more to do with the container than x264 but still relevant) but celtic's latest mp4box build (28/11 I think) doesnt seem to spit out mp4 files that quicktime likes (using YAMB). They give the usual no video quicktime window when u try to run them. When I use an older version of mp4box (0.4.1Dev to be exact) the mp4's are read fine by quicktime. Just wanted to share my thoughts. :)

[bond]

I dont know if anyone else has experienced this (and its more to do with the container than x264 but still relevant) but celtic's latest mp4box build (28/11 I think) doesnt seem to spit out mp4 files that quicktime likes (using YAMB). They give the usual no video quicktime window when u try to run them. When I use an older version of mp4box (0.4.1Dev to be exact) the mp4's are read fine by quicktime. Just wanted to share my thoughts. :)remuxing such a x264 mp4 file with mp4box fixes this problem only when you are demuxing the stream to raw and than remuxing to .mp4
when doing a mp4 -> mp4 conversion with mp4box the "stream not present" flag doesnt get changed in recent cvs (with older ones it was done)but as mentioned this bug has been fixed in x264 already, so when encoding with r382 and up you wont get any problems with qt7

[Randall]

I dont know if anyone else has experienced this (and its more to do with the container than x264 but still relevant) but celtic's latest mp4box build (28/11 I think) doesnt seem to spit out mp4 files that quicktime likes (using YAMB). They give the usual no video quicktime window when u try to run them. When I use an older version of mp4box (0.4.1Dev to be exact) the mp4's are read fine by quicktime. Just wanted to share my thoughts. :)

Thank you. This seems to have been falling on deaf ears around here. The latest version of MP4Box is b0rked. Regardless of the latest version of x264 r382 fixing an issue in the way the H.264 stream info is rendered.

[bond]

The latest version of MP4Box is b0rked. no, its not borked

if someone sets the "dont show video" flag in a .mp4 and than you remux it to another .mp4 the flag should still be set (its not mp4box to decide what settings to keep and what not)

[Randall]

So then the mp4box 0.4.1Dev is b0rked? Because something allowed the "don't show video" flag to be unset, and according to what I know, it was not x264 before version r382.

[bond]

every new version is atm labelled as "0.4.1Dev"

the old version you were using simply rewrote the mp4 file, new versions dont do that anymore

its a matter of taste what you prefer, but imho its ok if you have the same settings in the output mp4 that also were in the input mp4

[Randall]

So if I switch to the latest version of MP4Box and the latest release of x264, then this issue is resolved, and I won't have to "rewrite" the mp4 file?

[bond]

yes :)

[Randall]

This is great. I sent Apple a bug report for QuickTime, and apparently they don't understand what I'm talking about, because they need me to send them a "sample" MPEG-4 file that causes the crash. They don't seem to get that every MPEG-4 file known to man can cause this crash.

I was about to post the email to this forum, but I realized that since I submitted the bug report, it is under a non-disclosure agreement.

The basic jist of it is that you can write an MPEG-4 comment tag (using Apple software) that is long enough to cause QuickTime 7 to crash when playing that particular MPEG-4 file, and selecting Selecting: Window > Show Movie Info (just press Ctrl+I)

[GarfBond]

This is great. I sent Apple a bug report for QuickTime, and apparently they don't understand what I'm talking about, because they need me to send them a "sample" MPEG-4 file that causes the crash. They don't seem to get that every MPEG-4 file known to man can cause this crash.

I was about to post the email to this forum, but I realized that since I submitted the bug report, it is under a non-disclosure agreement.

The basic jist of it is that you can write an MPEG-4 comment tag (using Apple software) that is long enough to cause QuickTime 7 to crash when playing that particular MPEG-4 file, and selecting Selecting: Window > Show Movie Info (just press Ctrl+I)

I'm assuming you sent it through ADC? I think the best thing to do would just be to comply and send them some small file where you made the change, and casually point out that the giant comment tag is what causes it. Remember there's probably quite a few idiotic bug reports coming through the public methods :)

[Randall]

I'm assuming you sent it through ADC? I think the best thing to do would just be to comply and send them some small file where you made the change, and casually point out that the giant comment tag is what causes it. Remember there's probably quite a few idiotic bug reports coming through the public methods :)
Yup I sent it though ADC. I guess I will attach a "small" sample encode with a borked comment field.

[MySchizoBuddy]

Quicktime is the only webplayer for the H.264 codec. and as such a very important format. Not caring for it will be quite stupid. MeGUI should have a one click encode to quicktime format like handbrake does.

If u guys are not going to care about quicktime then the web will be run over by VC1 and flash. and i'm sure u guys don't want that now do you.

[foxyshadis]

VLC, Windows Media Player (with ffdshow or another codec), and MPlayer can all play AVC on a web page, though MPlayer's flakey about working as a plugin.

And MeGUI does have a Quicktime profile, accessible from One-click; what do you mean?

Besides, flash already won the short-file web format war and wmv won the streaming war years ago. AVC will only ever be a niche (like trailers and full videos now) unless one of the majors picks it up.

[Sharktooth]

Apple did it but their MPEG codecs implementation is really poor.

[popper]

VLC, Windows Media Player (with ffdshow or another codec), and MPlayer can all play AVC on a web page, though MPlayer's flakey about working as a plugin.

And MeGUI does have a Quicktime profile, accessible from One-click; what do you mean?

Besides, flash already won the short-file web format war and wmv won the streaming war years ago. AVC will only ever be a niche (like trailers and full videos now) unless one of the majors picks it up.


i think the key words there is 'years ago' as for being a niche in the future ,that depends on many things not least the fact AVC is now becomeing THE encoder CODEC to use.

http://www.newvideobusiness.com/content/view/74/26/1/0/
"
Mission accomplished: AVC encoding halves bit rates
Feature: Encoder vendors predicted that advanced codecs would halve real-time video bit rates compared to MPEG-2. That is exactly what has happened but, as John Moulding reports, VC-1 has been left in the shadows.

This feature can also be found in the September issue of New Video Technology magazine. This is an extended version with more detail on deployments and the continuing role of MPEG-2. "


"
VC-1 IS SIDELINED FOR REAL-TIME BROADCASTING
DUAL-CODEC APPROACH AT TIER-1 TELCOS
CONTINUING ROLE FOR MPEG-2 -- EVEN ON IPTV
IPTV MPEG-2/AVC MIGRATIONS
SATELLITE ADOPTS AVC FOR HDTV
CABLE HAS LESS NEED FOR ADVANCED CODING
ADVANCED COMPRESSION ON DIGITAL TERRESTRIAL
DTT REMAINS LARGELY MPEG-2
AVC HALVING BIT RATES
SWEET SPOT FOR HDTV IS 6-7.5Mbps
IPTV NEEDS TWO SIMULTANEOUS HD STREAMS
SATELLITE PUTS A PREMIUM ON PICTURE QUALITY
HDTV COULD BE POSSIBLE "IN 3-3.5Mbps"
HDTV BECOMING THE NEW STANDARD-DEFINITION?
TANDBERG TELEVISION'S NEW COMPRESSION ENGINE
TIER-1 QUALITY HDTV ONTO DENSE TELCO PLATFORMS
FOUR HD, FOUR SD AND FOUR PIP FROM 1RU
HARMONIC'S NEW SD AND HD ENCODING PLATFORMS
FOUR CHANNELS OF HDTV FROM 1RU
HARMONIC MOVES AWAY FROM MPEG-2/AVC PLATFORMS
"STILL A NEED FOR MPEG-2/AVC PLATFORMS"
DEBATE ABOUT IMPORTANCE OF DENSITY
BUT NEAR-CONSENSUS ABOUT VC-1
KEY DEPLOYMENTS: WHO USES WHO?
SCOPUS FINALISING HD PLATFORM"

"ICE3 is being used on the new EN8030 AVC standard-definition encoder and the EN8090 AVC HD/SD encoder. Effectively, these are the next-generation to the current EN5930 (SD) and EN5990 (HD) encoders for AVC but besides better bit rate reduction, they also deliver more outputs. The EN8090, for example, will take a single HD input and generate a full-resolution HDTV channel, a secondary version of that main channel in full standard-definition, and a third ‘micro’ channel for use in PiP, mosaic and multi-view applications"

also if people and new media like the new so called UK political webTV
http://18doughtystreet.typepad.com/home/2006/09/18doughtystreet_1.html#comments
'18DoughtyStreet - the home of anti-establishment TV'
can be convinced and educated to the future benefits DVB-C/T/S and DVB-H(2) http://www.newvideobusiness.com/content/view/77/26/ then AVC will be far more viable that the past tinkering and defeatest thinking or perhaps not , its all about the profit margins after all.

of course we appear to be still waiting for the tools to easly put several AVC encodes into/and edit a TS stream and the advancement of VLC and its like to again easly manipulate these ts channels for the new age personal video tv station rather like the video blog but way better quality and content that anyone can run in low bitrate AVC over their 512k upstream if they want.