mp4guy's Low Bitrate matrice

[Sirber]

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/psnr2.PNG
RealAnime alpha 3, "Extreme", 600kbps, 2624 frames

Is it normal to have a lower psnr?

[akupenguin]

Yes. All CQMs inherently have lower PSNR than the flat matrix.

[Sharktooth]

well... there was a great debate on the quality/PSNR relation...
however visually check the encode and keep the one which looks better.
however i've found some difficulties creating a low bitrate matrix for AVC and im not conviced it does anything good...
on the medium and high bitrate sides things get better instead...

[Sirber]

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/substract.jpgclip1 = DirectShowSource("test2.mkv")
clip2 = DirectShowSource("test2_cqm.mkv")
Subtract(clip1, clip2)

at 600kbps I cannot say which one is better, on anime :)

[*.mp4 guy]

Sounds like its performing pretty well then ;) , you might want to try lowering the loop filter a little if there are details you would like to preserve, it usually blocks less then the standard transform.

[bond]

sirber, did you read this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102006)

[Sirber]

No, but thanks for the link. I added only mp4guy's matrice coz I need a low bitrate one for anime :).

@*.mp4 guy

In theory I could enable the matrice by default, set loop to 0, and use my default bitrate of 368kbps? :D

[bond]

sirber you should test the quality of mp4guys matrix on low bitrate before forcing people to use it ;)

as i wrote in my comparison for me it didnt perform well

[Sirber]

You said is was blurier, but preserved the walls good. Alpha 3 will be out this weekend, so I still have time to test :)

But, with my one piece clip, I didn't see any difference :D

[bond]

every cqm performed better than the default matrix on walls

[Sirber]

sirber you should test the quality of mp4guys matrix on low bitrate before forcing people to use it ;)
I'm not forcing anyone, it will be checked by default that's all. CQM is not part of any "hardcoded evil Preset" ;)

[Revgen]

@Sirber

I'd suggest using Manao's CQM compare tool (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102022) (make sure to download the version from post #7) rather than encoding entire videos. It's takes less time, and works just as well.

[*.mp4 guy]

as i wrote in my comparison for me it didnt perform well

Personal preference is highly subjective, look at the results of soulhunters 4th cqm comparison and you will see just how widely the results vary. ;)

[Sirber]

I did a full encode (anime, 368kbps, 640x480, 24FPS) with the matrice (v1) and what I see most is muskito noise :(

[spinstate]

I did a full encode (anime, 368kbps, 640x480, 24FPS) with the matrice (v1) and what I see most is muskito noise
are you using the latest ffdshow (http://ffdshow.faireal.net) or VLC (nightlies.videolan.org/build/win32/) build?

[Sirber]

yes. 2005-10-25.

[*.mp4 guy]

I did a full encode (anime, 368kbps, 640x480, 24FPS) with the matrice (v1) and what I see most is muskito noise :(

Yeah I was wondering about that, no cqm will be capable of producing a clip with less wringing then the standard transform (Atleast I haven't seen it happen yet in mpeg4 AVC/ASP). So what it comes down to is whether the rining is more bothersome then the improvements it offers on anime. As a side note my matrix usually has lower ringing than the other I have tested.

[Sirber]

maybe less rigning, but a lot more muskito noise (v1) :(

[bond]

maybe less rigning, but a lot more muskito noise (v1) :(why are you talking about v1? is there another version?

[spinstate]

well visually the CQM encodes seem to have slightly more noise compared to the default matrix but picture looks a bit sharper IMO.

Test encodes
Default - http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=f0b9989e55106e7eac740cd4
mp4guy's Low Bitrate matrice (v1) - http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=5b710d74fb3202348a95fbaf
mp4guy's Low Bitrate matrice (v2) - http://www.filefactory.com/get/f.php?f=ed308996ac855bddac9782a4

[Sirber]

why are you talking about v1? is there another version?v2 is avalible in the x264 sticky.

[bond]

v2 is avalible in the x264 sticky.edit: ah found it:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=730433#post730433

seems he simply overwrote the v1 version so i never realised it something changed :D


so *.mp4 guy, does this mean that your old v1 matrix is now obsolete? (i mean hardly anything changed between the two)

also you might want to remove the spaces between the values!!! the official matrix format doesnt have the spaces so it might bork some encoders not being aware of them
have a look at the other matrices to see how its done normally

[*.mp4 guy]

The old matrix isn't at all obsolete, this version is just a small improvement to lower 4x4 blocking a bit. About the spaces, I will remove them, however I don't know if Sharktooth will update his distribution.

[bond]

The old matrix isn't at all obsolete, this version is just a small improvement to lower 4x4 blocking a bit.hm so in which cases someone should use v1 and when v2?

[Sharktooth]

i've noticed 8x8inter matrix has lower coefficients than 8x8intra matrix... is it intended or is it a "bug"?

[*.mp4 guy]

hm so in which cases someone should use v1 and when v2?
V2 should be a little better all the time, I was just saying its not a very big difference.

i've noticed 8x8inter matrix has lower coefficients than 8x8intra matrix... is it intended or is it a "bug"?
It was most definately intended, Mpeg4-AVC has a tendency to drop frequencies a little to aggresively on inter blocks imo. There are plenty of matrices that have lower inter values then intra values, Mpeg for example.

[Edit] Forgot to mention that this also to help lower the occurence of pieces of the picture being left behind (like when something is moving across the screen and it leaves little dots of whatever color it is on the background that don't go away until a scene change hits)

[woah!]

i dont seem to able to use "any" custom matrix other than the default one MeGUI uses with Main Profile.

i get like a black smearing over anything that is moving it's really bad.

heres some screenshots of it, and i only wanted to try out some new stuff and was wondering why i get this problem.

normal matrix:
http://images.dr3vil.com/upload2/MeGUI%20default%20matrix.jpg

custom matrix:
http://images.dr3vil.com/upload2/custom%20matrix.jpg


and here are my encode settings:

"x264.exe" --bitrate 750 --ref 3 --bframes 3 --b-pyramid --subme 6 --b-rdo --weightb --analyse all --8x8dct --qpmin 1 --me umh --cqmfile "D:\mp4_guy's_AVC_Low_Bitrate_matrix_V2.cfg" --progress --no-psnr --output "" ""


EDIT: so in MPC/nero showtime/graphedit it does the above using ffdshow's Mpeg4 decoder, but using Mplayer gui from sherpya is shows correctly?

looks like a problem with ffdshow's mpeg4 decoder for me then.


EDIT 2: Solved this issue with the latest version of ffdshow "ffdshow-20051107.exe" i was using the one that came in the latest "Matroska Pack v1.1.2" and it caused the problem above.