Archiving MiniDV to DVD-R?

[vcdude]

Is archiving MiniDV to DVD-R the way to go? I have a stack of tapes I'd like to re-use. Can I archive from my Panasonic NV-MX7 to DVD-R without any loss in quality? Any help would be greatly appreciated as the footage is mostly precious memories of my kids growing up. I would of course be using the best quality media I can find but know little else about what codecs or formats to use. My searches suggest that keeping it DV is best, but don't know about codecs and where to get them. Thanks in advance.

[henryho_hk]

Can I archive from my Panasonic NV-MX7 to DVD-R without any loss in quality?

You can rip the DV tape as Type-1 DV AVI files (16GB for 1 hour, I think) and then burn the AVI to DVD+/-R (4.33GB each) as data. Unless your computer and harddisk is not fast enough and there are drop frames in DV capture (direct data dump), there is no loss in quality and such backup should be quite safe compared to DV tapes.

DV to _Video_ DVD is always lossy and all we can do is to make it less visible. There are just too many possible ways. Hence, I recommend you to make a data backup first. Subsequently, you have plenty of time making experiments on _Video_ DVD conversion.

[2B]

You can rip the DV tape
I can recommend this little capture prog...
http://windv.mourek.cz/

[communist]

Its easier to keep the tapes + the tapes will last way longer than DVD-/+R.

[bb]

There are already several threads about the archiving topic:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=72891
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=83030
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=71441
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=38639

Hope this helps.

bb

[henryho_hk]

the tapes will last way longer than DVD-/+R.

I thought DVD+/-R would last longer.... is it the opposite?

[neily]

A 61 min tape as type 1 DV is 12.3 gig, so should fit onto 3 DVD-R's. I would strongly recommend type 1 DV, not only as it consumes less space, but also is I think immune from any A-V sync problems.

In terms of longevity, it is difficult to say. I have certainly noticed slight degradation in tapes first captured 18 months ago compared to now. Reading the DVD forums, individuals have certainly reported degradation varying from slowed down reading to unreadable discs after anywhere between a few months and a few years. The difference is that whereas a DV tape may develop drop outs, a DVD may fail completely, the cause most commonly cited being poor bonding between the disc halves.

My own preference is to play a tape back once for capture and copy to DVD-R for everyday use, and should the DVD-R fail, recapture. I would under no circumstances suggest over-writing the tapes.

[defaulk9]

My advice is to definitely keep your video on your tapes. Personally, I think your tapes will last just as long if not longer, though it's hard to predict the future on this.

But the real thing you should know is that it's not good for miniDV tapes to be reused. They become less reliable and can be more subject to degradation and dropouts.

Besides, archiving to DVD is a pain at this point, since even if you have a double layer DVD, you still cannot hold a single tape on a disc. Are you using an editing program? If you are, it's definitely good to keep your master material on tape. This way you can delete your video from disc any time you feel like it, and re-capture that material automatically. Most good editing programs offer this feature. So that way you can keep your editing projects on your hard drive all the time and if you want to re-visit the project, all you have to do is recapture your material and delete it again when you're finished. Very convenient and doesn't consume your entire hard drive.

Advice for the preservation of any media: store in a cold, dark place. Don't store tapes any closer together than you can help.

[henryho_hk]

In summary,

1) Do not reuse DV tape, especially if you want to keep them for archive.
2) Reliability of DVD+/-R is unproven. They are unprotected (no catridge) and easily scratched (except JP-made Super Hard TDK ones). Low quality DVD+/-R may become unreadable even after a few months.
3) DV tapes are also suspectible to drop-outs, jam, etc.
4) Store the DV tapes and DVD+/-R discs in dark, cool (but not too cold), dry (but not too dry) places.
5) Regularly review the condition of your backups.... and copy them to new media.
6) Copy other media, e.g. DV tapes, for casual playback. Convert to DVD Video for causal playback in friends' home.

[Mug Funky]

eek. data backup is such a messy issue. DVD is _theoretically_ safer in the long run, if they were made with more stable materials and to better tolerances. they're not magnetic media which is a plus, but they're just made too shabbily.

if you use good discs and a good burner, and store everything responsibly, you'll get years and maybe decades out of DVD-R, but the same can be said for tapes. my main problem with DV tapes is they have no effective error correction (only a primitive concealment which basically involves repeating the last good block). they're mechanically safer than other tapes because of their small size (large digibetas bugger up all the time, to say nothing of the $80,000 deck actually snapping the tape when it buggers up - always rewind tapes and have at least 30 sec of black at the top so you don't lose any actual video if this happens - you just lose a few seconds of colourbars or black).

if your projects are small, or you have a lot of time, patience and discs, backing up to DVD is a good way to go. also it means you don't have to re-edit after capturing.

on re-editing after re-capturing - you can avoid this by doing your main edit on a reference to the capture (not the raw capture), which is cut to a known in and out point. this way when you re-capture it's only 1 cut to fix and you can still use your old project. having slates and stuff on the tape is also a good idea, but not always possible.

[smok3]

iam doing backups of dv and mjpeg material on dual and single layer dvds, i do constantly rewrite dv tapes without problems (no dropouts yet).

the problems:
- dvds are small for this purpose (even duallayers)
- dvds are relatively slow to burn (it is a boring thing to do...)

(maybe one could invest into bunch of harddrives for that purpose...)

[bb]

I'd prefer external hdd's (USB 2.0 / firewire) for the purpose :)

bb

[JohnnyMalaria]

I know this is resurrecting an old thread but it is relevant to a current one...

my main problem with DV tapes is they have no effective error correction (only a primitive concealment which basically involves repeating the last good block.

The DV specification requires a very elaborate inner- and outer- error correction (Reed-Solomon) for both the audio and the video. Indeed, a large proportion of the data written to the tape is for the error correction. (For the audio, it is almost 100% redundancy).

DV files stored on your computer don't have the error-correction code and, indeed, the layout of the data in a DV frame that you get via Firewire is very, very different from the layout on the tape.

The most appropriate long-term storage solution for the DV footage is the DV medium.

[bb]

[...]The most appropriate long-term storage solution for the DV footage is the DV medium.
What is a DV medium? I guess you are talking about miniDV tapes.

bb

[JohnnyMalaria]

What is a DV medium? I guess you are talking about miniDV tapes.

bb

Yes. Or the full size DV tapes (if you have a full size deck like the DSR-11).

Or, for greater robustness, DVCAM tapes (like Sony's cobalt-coated ones).