Still small stutter with DVDRB 1.0.1 Pro

[eriksen76]

Its been a long time since I last experienced this problem, but last night I wanted to watch "The Mummy", and quite a few times stutter occoured.

Don't know if this is under the category "stutter" or "drop outs" so I'll try to explain.

In the beginning of chapter 13 you see a car crashing into a water pipe, and that is the most noticable place in the movie. As the water splashes, the sound drops out in split seconds and gets ok again afterwards. Seems like the program could not handle all the movement on the screen.

I know it sounds crazy but thats how it seems.

I get the same result on both my JVC and Pioneer standalone. Not on pc.

I did not pre-process anything and encode was done with CCE 2.67.27 (Trial)
5 passes. I did the movie with buld 1.0.1 Pro, same problem as with the build I did it with eailer.

If possible anyone please try encoding same movie to see which results you get. As mentioned ealier it was the PAL version I did. Don't know if the NTSC version will act the same.

/Eriksen76

[Boulder]

In the beginning of chapter 13 you see a car crashing into a water pipe, and that is the most noticable place in the movie. As the water splashes, the sound drops out in split seconds and gets ok again afterwards. Seems like the program could not handle all the movement on the screen.

Sounds to me that the maximum total bitrate your standalone can handle has been exceeded at that point. Moving water needs a huge bitrate.

[eriksen76]

Sounds to me that the maximum total bitrate your standalone can handle has been exceeded at that point. Moving water needs a huge bitrate.

Theoreticly yes, but it happens a few other times as well in this movie. And if I extract the video/audio and reauthor with Dvdmaestro the stutter is gone.

/Eriksen76

[Boulder]

Could you check the particular scene with Bitrate Viewer or MPEG Stream Eye and report what they say about the bitrate there. It would also be interesting to compare DVD-RB's output to DVDMaestro's in this sense.

[eriksen76]

Could you check the particular scene with Bitrate Viewer or MPEG Stream Eye and report what they say about the bitrate there. It would also be interesting to compare DVD-RB's output to DVDMaestro's in this sense.

Will have a look at it, but as Jdobbs seems to be the expert, I sent him the small scene with stutter for analysis. I guess he might be able to sort out what went wrong. Atleast I hope so

/Eriksen76

[jdobbs]

Hmmm... I just tried it... I couldn't repeat any stutter on three different players. I checked several things including:

1. Bitrate: The "crash" scene peaks at 8,523Kbs -- but with only one audio track present(DD5.1) -- that falls easily under the maximum.

2. Timing irregularities: Scanned the entire scene for any SCR/PTS/DTS irregularities -- it came back fine.

3. Buffer irregularities: Scanned for buffer usage -- no buffer underflows or overflows.

I sure looks correct from what I can see so far. I'll continue to check it. Are you sure it wasn't bad media?

[eriksen76]

I burn-tested 3 times, and when I reauthored with Dvdmaestro it worked flawlessly.

I just compared working sample and "stutter sample" with bitrate viewer.
No differences to report (same peak and avg. bitrate)

Jdobbs, check your PM I have sent you a working sample and a non working. Maby that makes it easier for testing.

I really wish you could see what happens on my two standalone players. But I guess sending you files is the way.

Hopefully you can find out what is wrong.

(By the way, the stutter I experience is kinda the same as long time ago when it was a larger problem for many people)

/Eriksen76

[SamuriHL]

Sorry for the interruption, but, no one mentioned another possibility here. DVD Media!! If you burned it on to less than "great" media, you could certainly see the results you're getting. Especially if it doesn't happen on the PC but does happen on the stand alone players. It's at least something to look at.

[jikchung]

jdobbs said:
Are you sure it wasn't bad media?

[eriksen76]

Yes the question has already been answered.

To sum up:

No bad media - I always use Verbatim

Several test burns also

Works on same kind of media when re-authoring with Dvdmaestro

/Eriksen76

[feedback]

No bad media - I always use Verbatim
Verbatim DVD-R don't work well with my burner. Skips, freezes, etc.
Verbatim DVD+R no problem. Other DVD-R like TDK/CMC Magnetics work fine.

Burn with ImgBurn and see if it still skips. Also, tick the Verify Option in ImgBurn.
Regards,:)

[SamuriHL]

Sorry, my bad. That's what I get for posting right after I wake up. :)

[Video Dude]

@eriksen76

Did you check the DVD in IfoEdit to see if there is a layer break at chapter 13? Perhaps it was not removed. That may be one explanation why there is a stutter/pause on the standalone players, but not on the PC.

Re-authoring with Dvdmaestro would create new ifos and therefore the layer break would not be there.

[eriksen76]

There is no "layer-break" at the point, so that can't be causing it.

Due to my ripping experience it has got to somehow be caused by DVDRB

Some time ago I and others had similar probs, but as always Jdobbs solved them. Somehow there still needs to be done some debugging.

Both my dvd players are infected by stutter at this point of the movie. A bit more in my Pioneer compared with the JVC.

Trust me it has nothing to do with the medias. I've tried 3 different brands now. And....:

No layer breaks at the point.

No pre-processing

As mentioned ealier, I sent some files to Jdobbs. I'm eager to hear if he found something mysterous about them - And what could possibly cause the stutter.

/Eriksen76

[Boulder]

Based on my experiences with a Pioneer standalone, they can sometimes be extremely picky, not only regarding media but also other things related to the video. I've had sound skipping with a total bitrate of ~9500kbps (including audio and subs) too often.

By the way, could you try using HC instead of CCE?

[eriksen76]

Already tried that also, same prob

/Eriksen76

[feedback]

Have you changed/added anything (Hidden Options) in the RB .ini.?

What program are you burning with?

File or ISO?

Regards,:)

[eriksen76]

I'm using Img.tool classic together with Dvdecrypter like I have done 1000 of times.

Always successful

/Eriksen76

[TheSeeker]

I'm using Img.tool classic together with Dvdecrypter like I have done 1000 of times.

Always successful

/Eriksen76


Im sure you have already tried this, but have you tried bringing the problem discs to a friends house or your parents or something and trying it on their DVD Players? Maybe you just have the horrible luck of having two extremely picky dvd players...

[eriksen76]

Your right, I just have the horrible luck of having two extremely picky dvd players. The Sony that my parents have does not seem to be affected.

Well there standalone was also not affected a year ago when it was a bigger problem for lots/some other people.

Nor is both my dvd players are picky when it comes to shrink backups, dvd2one, CCE with Dvdmaestro authoring etc. etc. etc.

Only some movies done with dvdrebuilder seems to be the problem. And thats whats giving me the headaches. I only want to use DVDRB.

Jdobbs asked me to try rebuilding with a few ealier versions. I just tried with:

DVDRB V.RC4.1
DVDRB V.RC5.1

It acts just the same.

Now I will try doing a complete backup from scratch using HC-encode. I just think its no use, but I'll give it a try.

I will let you all know how it went.

/Eriksen76

[TheSeeker]

Your right, I just have the horrible luck of having two extremely picky dvd players. The Sony that my parents have does not seem to be affected.

Well there standalone was also not affected a year ago when it was a bigger problem for lots/some other people.

Nor is both my dvd players are picky when it comes to shrink backups, dvd2one, CCE with Dvdmaestro authoring etc. etc. etc.

Only some movies done with dvdrebuilder seems to be the problem. And thats whats giving me the headaches. I only want to use DVDRB.

Jdobbs asked me to try rebuilding with a few ealier versions. I just tried with:

DVDRB V.RC4.1
DVDRB V.RC5.1

It acts just the same.

Now I will try doing a complete backup from scratch using HC-encode. I just think its no use, but I'll give it a try.

I will let you all know how it went.

/Eriksen76


Its a good excuse to buy a new dvd player at any rate! LOL. That is, unless your dvd players are pretty much brand new. Then it just sucks.

[jdobbs]

DVDRB V.RC4.1
DVDRB V.RC5.1

It acts just the same.Good. That tells me it isn't anything introduced in the recent versions... it's probably some anomaly in the original disc. I found from K-19 that sometimes the original audio timing can be hosed enough to cause this kind of thing. I'lll look at the clips you gave me and see if that might be it.

[eriksen76]

Good. That tells me it isn't anything introduced in the recent versions... it's probably some anomaly in the original disc. I found from K-19 that sometimes the original audio timing can be hosed enough cause this kind of thing. I'lll look at the clips you gave me and see if that might be it.

Do you think you might be able to fix that somehow??

Well, so far you've been able to fix almost everything, so I guess its a stupid question

By the way Jdobbs, sorry for bothering you bout' getting the earlier versions, I managed to find them hidden on my Hdd :)

/Eriksen76

[SamuriHL]

Do you think you might be able to fix that somehow??

Well, so far you've been able to fix almost everything, so I guess its a stupid question

By the way Jdobbs, sorry for bothering you bout' getting the earlier versions, I managed to find them hidden on my Hdd :)

/Eriksen76

He has to diagnose what the problem is first, but, it looks as though he's doing a good job with doing that. Give him time and I'm sure he'll find you a solution or at the very least the cause of the problem. JDobbs is amazingly responsive!

[TheSeeker]

He has to diagnose what the problem is first, but, it looks as though he's doing a good job with doing that. Give him time and I'm sure he'll find you a solution or at the very least the cause of the problem. JDobbs is amazingly responsive!

Thats an understatement to say the least... Where else can you go and get support direct from the author of the software, and usually the same day you write the post? Nowhere that I have ever seen.

[SamuriHL]

Thats an understatement to say the least... Where else can you go and get support direct from the author of the software, and usually the same day you write the post? Nowhere that I have ever seen.

There are a few applications I use where I get that level of support, but, that is far and few between and is HIGHLY appreciated when we do get that level of support. It's not something to take lightly, that's for sure.

[eriksen76]

You're both very right, Jdobbs always respond and always takes the time trying to solve the small bugs we find. Not to mention that he tryes to answer the questions we have at a understandable level.

I guess were all just glad to help as much as we can, even though I can't say I have a very high technical level of knowledge on this stuff.

By the way I have just started the HC encode.

/Eriksen76

[eriksen76]

Double post. Sorry

/Eriksen76

[Haltech]

I had a similar problem when i backed up The Longest Yard. However, i traced the problem down to bad media. I did a media scan and was surprised at what i found. I was a victim of fake Taiyo Yuden media. I purchased genuine TY from Rima.com and burned at 8X with no problems. Problem solved. Doing a quality scan of that DVD and check the errors and scan.

[laserfan]

I routinely use Nero CD-DVD Speed v4.01 on ScanDisc tab to check for reading problems on my burned DVDs.

Is this the best tool for checking errors? Does anyone use anything else?

[eriksen76]

Some time ago I used the program "cd-check" but after about +100 checks of my burned Verbatim medias without finding any errors, I stopped using the utility. I thought it was a waste of time

Verbatim seems stable to me

By the way, the result of encoding with HC:

The same as before, with stuter at the exact same places.



/Eriksen76

[jarthel]

I experienced the same problem except that I did not burn the .iso into a DVD. I just loaded them into alcohol.

I have not experienced it again.

/me knocks on wood :)

[eriksen76]

I tryed to encode "The Mummy" once again changing the max bitrate to 7000 in the .ecl. file.

Now stutter was all gone!

I will try again and squeeze it to 8000 and see if the result is the same

Only thing strange is that how can it be that when Dvdmaestro is used for reauthering of the "dvdrb outputtet files" my dvd player accepts the high bitrate from before changing the max bitrate???

I testet the output from Maestro and compare it with the output from Dvdrebuilder with bitrateviewer and it peaks at the same spot.

Any ideas Jdobbs, can It be that Dvdrebuilder handles the higher bitrates in a "incorrect" manor?

/Eriksen76

[jdobbs]

I think the difference is that DVD Maestro reauthors the timing for the audio tracks. DVD-RB uses them intact from the original. It may be related to the peak of the copy rising above the peak of the original (which in itself would naturally be expected to be a rare phenomena).

At least now I have something to work with. It seems to only affect a handful of users who have certain kinds of players -- but I'd like DVD-RB to handle all situations.

[eriksen76]

I think the difference is that DVD Maestro reauthors the timing for the audio tracks. DVD-RB uses them intact from the original. It may be related to the peak of the copy rising above the peak of the original (which in itself would naturally be expected to be a rare phenomena).

At least now I have something to work with. It seems to only affect a handful of users who have certain kinds of players -- but I'd like DVD-RB to handle all situations.

That makes sense, lets hope you'll be able to fix it. Like I told you ealier, if you make a Beta version of a new version with changes that might fix the issue. Then be sure to send it to me right away, and I will report as soon as I can if it works.

By the way I encoded same movie again with max bitrate 8000, which resultet in stutter. So far I've only successful with max bitrate at 7000. I will try now at 7500 as I want to see what the "magic spot" is.

Let say that I can set it to 7800 without getting any stutter. Will this have any noticable affect on picture quality?

/Eriksen76

[jdobbs]

Even if you did find a "magic" spot it would only apply to that disc. I'd just leave it at 7000 -- adding another 500Kbs to the max_bitrate isn't going to make a lot of difference.