Split percentage

[Harrysmiith]

I've been trying out DVD Rebuilder Pro and CCE basic for a while now and really like it.

However I'm still unsure as to the maximum compression that is realistic.

I have just backed up at 88.6% and to me the material looks fine. It took longer than shrink or recode would have done but not too long to be a problem.

So my question is - Having removed extras, menues etc at what level do people decide to split a program between 2 disks rather than compress to one ?

[feedback]

It's actually a subjective call IMO. I don't know if there is a difinitive answer.
I mean you have one camp that backup Main Movie only and you have others that encode Movie,menu,extras...a full backup, for instance.

Also, in some countries the cost of blank dvd media is still rather high due to a variety of factors. So, using one disk will, for awhile, remain their primary choice regardless of compression levels.

Making a high quality encoded backup will usually take longer over a transcoded backup. However, the quality difference is worth it in my opinion.

Once you learn to use all the different options/setting on DVD-RB Pro.(using the different Matrices, filters, DC precision etc.) you will in many cases make a much lower bitrate backup to one disk that is almost indistinguishable from the original.

I will say people have gotten good backups to one DVD in the lower 2000 bitrate range using some of the aforesaid options.

It is amazing at what one can accomplish with RB.

Regards,:)

[jptheripper]

if you do movie only, i generally wont back up to 2 disks unless the movie is over 3 hours.

[feedback]

Well, we should get off the comparison of Shrink or Recode compression to Bitrate levels. The following is by jdobbs on the subject.
The level of compression that will result in good quality depends heavily upon the source you are planning to compress.

For example, you may have a fairly simple DVD that contains a 90 minute movie and a few minor extras that were all encoded at a very high average bitrate and therefore takes a lot of space on the original disc. You might be able to compress that one to 30% of its original size and not even be able to tell it was compressed.

On the other end of the spectrum you may encounter a 4 hours of source material on a DVD that is loaded with extras. It may be encoded at a bitrate that barely makes the mark on the original... and attempting to compress it and keep decent quality is very difficult.

Luckily when using a high quality encoder like CCE, QuEnc (FFMPEG), or HC -- you will find that there are very few DVDs that can't be reencoded at a level of quality that is barely if at all distinguishable from the original. No matter what -- you can always feel assured that it is the best it can be in the space of a DVD-5.


For instance, if you have a high bitrate original movie at 6200 bitrate reduced by 50% and a original movie at 4200 bitrate reduced by 50% you are then comparing a 3100 bitrate movie to a 2100 bitrate movie which is quite a difference using the same compression levels.

So, it depends on the source and your personal preferences.

Regards,:)

P.S. Anybody else have any thoughts on the subject? :D :p

[feedback]

@Harrysmiith
Here is a link to Bitrate Viewer (http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm) for those that may need or like to use it. It is Freeware BTW.

Regards,:)

[apfraats]

As already said by JDOBBS and he's right, it havenly depends upon your souce material.

If youre source is ok in quality, IMO you have to make sure you have an AVERAGE of 4000 on the destination disc and use full VBR to give demanding scenes with lot's of motion and contrast differences to ability to use higher bitrates up to 8000 or even 9000 at peak-level.

That's when using a good encoder and wanting real qaulity on average movies.

Don't use shrink or recode, because the quality of the bitstream is also important. You can make a high bitrate low quality stream, by using the wrong tools.

Using DVD-RB-PRO gives the best results I have seen uptill now. That's a fact for me.

Even try to use CCE SP if you can get (or do I have to say 'effort it' :D ) to be able to do multiple pass VBR encoding which greatly improves quality over the already ok CCE BASIC which can't perform more passes.

You will notice people saying they are getting great results with much lower bitrates, but I don't believe in that.

That's just depending on youre personal experiences and interpretation of quality.

Having a lower quality TV , you may not notice the difference, but having a higher quality TV you amybe get a headsche at once for example.

I consider my stuff as 'reasonable' and my experiences are as mentioned.

It also depends on how big the screen is, youre lokking at.

How bigger the screen (presuming standard quality) how more artifacts and quality disturbences are noticed.

On a little screen all can look perfect, while at a good quality bigger screen it seems to be hopeless worse.....

In the end there is NO way to compensate for lack of bitrate.

So given a good source and a good encoder, a bitstream of 4000 AVERAGE will always be better then the same at 2000 AVERAGE, despite what others say. Finally it's all a personal matter. You have to experiment and decide youre own quality standards.

Don't forget to check on a good quality BIG screen TV , as that's the most strict way to check for quality.

Then decide for youre own what;s good and what's not.

You can easily try this by using a good source and trying CCE at different target bitrates as reported after the DVD_RB_PRO's prepare fase (the average bitrate shown).

If you want to compare the infuence of bitrates , just use the parameter CCE_TARGETSECTORS to make the destination look smaller, so the average bitrate will go down and compare it.

Experimenting a lot with parameters, filters, encoder matrices etc. can help.

I'm not even done with that already.... as it gives too many variables...

Just also still learning and trying....

[Harrysmiith]

@Harrysmiith
Here is a link to Bitrate Viewer (http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm) for those that may need or like to use it. It is Freeware BTW.

Regards,:)


Thanks Feedback - have downloaded and started to try it out. Is it necessary to buy to be able to run a complete DVD thr the viewer. So far I have only been able to view one file at a time

[Harrysmiith]

Even try to use CCE SP if you can get (or do I have to say 'effort it' :D ) to be able to do multiple pass VBR encoding which greatly improves quality over the already ok CCE BASIC which can't perform more passes.

...


I would love to try but isn't this the $2,000 version ? I bought CCE Basic because of price -- was disappointed that it only 2 1 or 2 passes but then some say that deminishing marginal returns means that more is not really necessary.
Certainly I would rather split between 2 dvds than pay $2,000

[feedback]

Thanks Feedback - have downloaded and started to try it out. Is it necessary to buy to be able to run a complete DVD thr the viewer. So far I have only been able to view one file at a time
Regardless if you buy it or not I believe you still only get one mpeg or AVI stream at the time. I just use the freeware version.
There is a users guide PDF on the site that may tell you more.
I would love to try but isn't this the $2,000 version
Yes! $2,000. :eek:
I think apfraats was alluding to that with his 'if you can get (or do I have to say afford it') comment. ;)

Regards,:)

[TheSeeker]

Don't feel bad about being limited to only 2 passes (1 vaf pass and 1 encode pass). Thats all that is usually needed, I have cce sp and that is all I usually use. If the source material is long and has a lower avg bitrate then maybe I will add one pass to make it 3, but never more than that. This was discussed at great length by many people smarter than me and they generally concluded that 1+1 passes is about the best you can get, it really doesn't improve much with more passes. Plus on my comp 1+1 passes only take about 1 hour 45 minutes with cce sp. So the speed is something to take into account as well.

And back on topic, I have never felt the need to split discs. Maybe on Lord of the Rings trilogy (extended edition) I would, but thats only because its already 2 discs. And is about 4 hours long... With cce and dvd rb you should almost never have to spit it up, as long as your willing to get rid of some extras and extra audio tracks.

[Harrysmiith]

Thanks to all for all the help and advice.

I have just used DVD RB Pro 1 to back up with CCE basic. making no changes to default settings it compressed to 62.2% and gave a bitrate average of just over 3000. The disk is actually 2 programs so each can easily be burned with no compression. will be interesting to see if anyone can tell the difference. On a regular 32" 100hz Sony I am unable to see any problem