Microsoft to kill OpenGl

[BlindWanderer]

Normaly i would say that this is outside the range of doom9's scope but in a way it is still with in because there are avisynth plugins that use DirectX & OpenGL.

Brief:
Microsoft is cutting support for window mode OpenGL down to OpenGL 1.4 without extentions. If you want newer features you have to install a driver provided by your video card manufacturer at which point you loose Aeroglass.

Cool interface or OpenGL 1.4+




Future in Microsoft Windows
On August 6, 2005, Microsoft's intentions for OpenGL support in Windows Vista were revealed on in an Opengl.org news announcement (http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_directory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001):

Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aeroglass experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run - the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.

In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass:

OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%

OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4

No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations

It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.

As a result, the future of Microsoft Windows support of OpenGL as a mainstream library for computer and video games looks precarious. Microsoft have taken the decision not to release the information necessary to allow third parties (such as those at NVIDIA, ATI or the other large graphics card manufacturers) to develop replacement drivers, leaving no way to avoid the 50% speed drop. A 3Dlabs employee states in the same Opengl.org thread:

This information came from the OpenGL BOF held at Siggraph 2005 in LA this last Wednesday evening. This was confirmed at the BOF by NVIDIA, ATI and us (3Dlabs).

As soon as an [installable client driver] is loaded the composited desktop is turned off on Windows Vista. If you want the composited desktop Aeroglass experience, you will need to make your application go through Microsoft's OpenGL implementation, which is layered on top of DirectX. As pointed out earlier, this layering can have performance implications. Their implementation supports OpenGL version 1.4 only, without extension support.

We believe it possible to provide an ICD with full composited desktop support while adhering to the stability and security requirements in Windows Vista. But we need Microsoft's help in doing so.

Therefore, as mentioned before, please let your contact in the ISV or IHV or OEM community know how you feel about this and spread the word.

For some more information, you can browse these Microsoft WinHEC slides:

"Windows Graphics Overview [WinHEC 2005; 171 KB]" http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/f/98f3fe47-dfc3-4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWPR05007_WinHEC05.ppt

"Advances in Display and Composition Architecture for Windows [WinHEC 2005; 422 KB]" http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/f/98f3fe47-dfc3-4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWPR05005_WinHEC05.ppt

Regards, Barthold 3Dlabs

An installable client driver is the glue provided by a card manufacturer to connect your operating system with your graphics card.

[Sirber]

Go Microsoft Go! Control the world! :devil:

[virus]

I've followed that thread on opengl.org (years ago, before getting interested in image compression and DVD backups, I coded quite a bit of 3D-related stuff, and of course OpenGL was my API of choice for hardware acceleration, so I still check back sometimes :)) and it looks like things aren't that bad as it was originally thought.

All applications that run fullscreen (mainly games) can still use an ICD written specifically for Vista's driver model by hardware vendors, like it happens today. So: full OGL 2.0 support, and full speed (no OpenGL->Direct3D conversion).

The problem comes with windowed applications. Keep in mind that 95% of software in the graphics industry (think about CAD applications, for example) actually use OpenGL, and usually renders into one or more windows. With those apps, 2 things may happen:
1) they won't use a proprietary ICD, but Microsoft's OpenGL->Direct3D translation, which will degrade the performance a bit (just a bit, hopefully). Also they will be limited to OpenGL 1.4 (very outdated as of now... no OGL2, no GLSL, etc etc). With this setup Aero should work normally (the Aeroglass UI is heavily based on - and can only work with - DirectX 10. Not even DX9 will be sufficient)
2) they'll use the ICD. That means full OpenGL support at full speed, but the desktop compositing (aka blending of transparent windows) in Aero will be switched off. Probably just for the single window that uses OGL, not for the whole desktop as initially thought. That seems a viable road to get OpenGL supported decently in Aero.
Anyway, M$ refuses to tell to nVidia, ATI & co. how to workaround this problem and get ICDs accelerate the windowed rendering while keeping desktop compositing on.

Basically: OGL is too widespread in the industry to get dropped suddenly by M$, especially since it works 100% in WinXP, so people may then become reclutant to upgrade to Vista. But for sure they don't want to fully support it. They surely seek ways to make OpenGL programming in Win32 less attractive... the console/graphics API war between the Xbox/DirectX and the Playstation/OpenGL has just started... ;)

Now that OpenGL has hit version 2.0 (while keeping backwards compatibility with version 1.x, first released in 1991 - while M$ next year won't even support DirectX 9 which they use now), and got his own standardized shading language as well as the all-important OpenGL-ES specification (cellphones, PDAs, consoles... millions of dollars at stake), M$ seeks ways to use their monopoly to enforce yet another monopoly, like they did in the past several times. Not really a novelty ;)

Personally, I will never buy Vista (heck, I never ever bought winXP, too :D). I'm gonna switch to Linux full-time with an old copy of Windows (you can have them for free when licenses expire) sitting in a small partition for some specific tasks, when no suitable software for Linux is available. I just hope other people will do the same.

cheers,
virus

[Revgen]

I've never used Linux before. But this Windows Vista crap is pointing me towards that direction.

The only reason I even use Windows XP is because I was fortunate enough to buy a Corporate Edition version that doesn't require Windows Activation at a cheap price.

[Shinigami-Sama]

and m$ thinks that vista will help stop this so called 'piracy'? hahaha, with what they're trying to shove down people's thoats like this more people will probly rip off a copy or xp or 98, to burn them even worse and switch to full linux, like I might...