UNDOT() again... Sorry....

[apfraats]

Just red the post over the UNDOT() filter but it didn't gave me enough sound and clear info and the topic even ended up with totally different subject , so a question again:

I tried (and it worked) to compress SEX AND THE CITY SEiZON 5 DISC 1, on which there are just 4 episodes with CBR at about 7000. They easily can be compressed with CCE SP using FULL VBR.

But the problem is that the source material is REALLY NOISE !!

I think UNDOT() can help me. Now a significant portion of the bitrate is wasted on reconstructing the noise, which is a shame. Better use the full bitrate for overall picture quality then for regenerating the noise again.
(ever tried encoding pure noise ????, it gives youre encoder the hardest time it ever had and the highest bitrates, nothing worse then noise, because there is no structure in any way and each frame is almost 100% different from the previous one, even don't try to play back real white/black noise and use PAUSE, Mpeg2 can't handle it....)

But I never used filters.

Can anybody give me a little step by step description of how to implement the UNDOT() filter in DVD-RB ????

Maybe it looks really stupid for some of you, but I have never used filters and even don't dare to experiment with them as I may waste mij DBD-RB environment for ever.....

So to be short: How to put UNDOT() in DVD-RB ???
are there better filters to specially proces NOISY source ????

Thanks alot guys...

[jdobbs]

CBR on the original? That's really odd...

Anyway -- if you used the Installer when you set up DVD-RB, then undot is already availble. Just add this line in the filter editor:

undot()

You may want to try this on your noisy source:

undot().deen()

Deen() is also installed...

I would recommend you run a PREPARE on the source with these added, and then open the AVS files directly with Windows Media Player and review them just to see how you like the effect.

Don't forget to remove them before you go to your next source. Also -- remember they will slow down your encoding time.

[apfraats]

Thanks I found the filter editor. So I put in a line UNDOT() and that should be all ???

If it's results is already visible in the prepare step, why does it slow down encoding ???? I


Btw: CBR on commercial discs is not so strange, but it's a minority. Have seens movies of about 90 minutes that used 7 GB en were encoded at 8000 Kbps straight.

If I see the total playing time and audio-tracks of the stuff on the DVD, I know soon enough when to expect CBR or SEMI-CBR on it. Just using BITRATEVIEWER and you'll get a really nice flat yellow line somewhere bewteen 7000-9000 Kbps............... Even where the picture is completely black.....

[jdobbs]

Because the filter is applied against the source --- before encoding. You are viewing the filtered source when you look at the AVS file -- not the MPEG output.

[Rippraff]

Thanks I found the filter editor. So I put in a line UNDOT() and that should be all ???
That's all if you have undot.dll in your Avisynth plugins folder.

If it's results is already visible in the prepare step, why does it slow down encoding ????
It's visible after the prepare phase because it's implemented in your avs files. And every filter slows down your encoding time.

Cu Rippraff

[apfraats]

Playing back AVS-files with media player ????????

Sure I would make a stupid mistake here, but the AVS files are really short and I only get 10 seconds of black-picture playback here...???

Waht do I do wrong ???

[jdobbs]

Try another AVS -- there are places where short blank pieces are normal.

An AVS is just a sythesized AVI file (using AVISYNTH). It contains no video, but does video processing against the source that is referenced in the AVS file and presents it to the computer as if it were an AVI.

[apfraats]

You were right, some AVS have video, other do not.

But I noticed a strange effect of UNDOT().

When playing back it looks like you play back on a videocard that just has a limited color-palette. So you see no gradients in color but 'real steps' in the color gradient around and in some objects...

Is this normal with UNDOT(), it really makes the filter useless... The image looks really disturbed and artificial by this....

Better alternatives, only want the noise gone....

ADDITION: These effect were there with NERO MEDIAPLAYER.
Using WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER they were merely gone.


A Questions that remains: Are there noise supression filters that accept a parameter for example NO_NOISE(1..99), so you can set it's charataristics or 'treshold' level or something ?

[jdobbs]

I think you're seeing problems in the player, not in undot().

There are many, many filters with many, many parameters. You may want to look here (one out of a lot of sources for filters):

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

If you run into any problems, though, remember you use filters at your own risk. I have never tried most of them. Also keep note of the color space requirements for some of the filters. In DVD-RB at the point at which you enter the filters you are working in the YV12 colorspace. So if you are using a filter that requires YUY2, for example, you would need to add a ConvertToYUY2() command before the filter.

If you do color conversions -- use them wisely, as there can sometimes be small color shifts. Also remember that there will be a ConvertToYUY2() or ConvertToYV12() command entered immediately after the filters depending upon the encoder you are using. CCE requires either RGB or YUY2 so YUY2 is used.

[steptoe]

If you have a noisy source, or a badly scratched one, two very good filters I use myself, which are better than undot and deen, and have plenty of tweakable options but also are very good without overkill on defaults are descratch and removedirt

descratch is here : http://bag.hotmail.ru/descratch/descratch.dhtml

removedirt is here : http://www.removedirt.de.tf/

On VHS transfers I've also used cnr2 with better results than the source


Yes there are filters out there that are better, but I haven't got the patience or time to tweak all options just for that specific source, nor the time to wait 2-3 days running at 2-3 FPS as some of the filter and filter functions available run at. LimitedSharpen offers very impressive results, but runs incredibly slow, I'm running an Athlon 64 at 2300 and I just haven't that much time to wait

I admit the final output compared to the source is amazing, if you have the time, or another system you can leave just encoding. I suppose this is where two processor systems come in very usueful

Try looking through the forums on AVISynth, there is plenty to digest on there and people spend hours getting the best they possible can. There is plenty of help as well

[apfraats]

thanx a lot for the answers.

I seems that working with filters is a job of it's own.

Even I don't have the time to really try them.

But with 5 towers I luckely have spare and can run for days on a system, leaving it do it's work (Only have to get a bunch of solar panels :D ).

My input is for almost 100% DVD-based , do one might expect to have already polished up material. But in practise you sometimes wonder what kind of noisy stuff they simple directly put on DVD......

Thanks a lot...

I will do dome experimenting as time goes by.

And thanks to JDOBBS for the colorspace tips. That probably had killed me in the first place.............

[apfraats]

I'm running an Athlon 64 at 2300 and I just haven't that much time to wait




I suppose you mean Athlon 64 3200, but I'm making spelling mistakes as hell, so I get the point.

I don't think there is much difference now between an ATHLON 64 3200 and an ATHLON 32 3000 XP, becasue all the used software is running in 32 bit mode. That's why I wait some time untill CCE and AVISYNTH are 64 bits based , however they merely depend on floating point speed, I presume.

And only when the speed is increased by factors let's say times 2 I want to spend money on it. I don't care about 20% speed increase or so...

[steptoe]

Actually its an Athlon 64 1800, but I've clocked it to run very stable with NO crashes or weird problems at 2300

But I know what you mean with the 64-bit issue, I ain't installing 64 bit windoze until more is available for 64-bit


I was just going to upgrade my processor, but the difference in buying the fastest processor for my motherboard and having to do it all again in say 6-12 months caughing up the extra to go 64-bit was best in the long run

Besides my system IS quite a bit faster, so I'm happy, running an Athlon XP 1200 before




Anyway my point is I have had stuff on DVD that is terrible, looks like they have literally just transferred it straight onto DVD with nothing done to the source at all

I suppose its down to cost, the more time they spend cleaning up old films or series the more it will cost the company, and as some of the stuff I have comes out of the cheap labels, their profit margins are going to be slim anyway

So yes, filtering can help with DVD movies/series, especially the really old B+W series or movies