DV encoded incorrectly with CCE

[KnightAzul]

Hi,

I think that I have been incorrectly encoding my DV home movies with CCE to MPEG2. Being a N00b I pretty much left everything as default for the encoding process including the "top field first box" checked in CCE (version 2.66).

My source is a PC connected to a bog standard CRT PAL TV with S-video. To be honest I haven't noticed anything particularly bad about the quality of the encoded MPEG2, apart from some blockiness in places.

Is there any way to "correct" this after the fact? Would it mean that the interlaced fields will be played in the wrong order and perhaps can be corrected by deinterlacing ...

Thanks for any help!
KnightAzul

[2B]

If "Offset Line" was set to 1 everything is fine because a odd number in this field "converts" a BFF input video to TFF.

[edit] I forgot to mention progressive frame flag should have been disabled and scanning mode set to "alternate"

[DrP]

If the video plays with a jerkiness on a regular DVD player, you can easily patch the field order flag to correct it.

project-x on the downloads page fits the bill nicely. Just set the change field order option on the video tab and then demux your .mpg file and finally mux it back together with mplex (a version comes with cuttermaran).

[Video Dude]

Another good program to fix the videos is ReStream.

[bigotti5]

including the "top field first box" checked in CCE (version 2.66)

you have done all right
the option "top field first box" checked in 2.66 does the same as "offset-line=1" in 2.67 and higher - it changes the fieldorder properly from BFF (comes from DV) to TFF (out from CCE) by shifting up the picture one line

be sure to uncheck progressiv and use alternate scan mode

[Mug Funky]

actually, the "top field first" box specifies the input field order. for DV (bottom-first) it should be unchecked.

CCE always outputs a TFF stream, which IMO is the correct way to do things - DV is really the odd one out by going bottom first, and requiring a 1-line shift.

[bigotti5]

for DV (bottom-first) it should be unchecked.

definitely not - Upper field first checked in 2.66 shifts up one line

so for DV it is to check

[KnightAzul]

The plot thickens ...

My editing and encoding process is the following:

1. Capture the interlaced PAL DV from my digital camera with Videostudio 7, and then edit within Videostudio 7.
2. Output from Videostudio 7 to PAL DV AVI with the following settings:
Microsoft AVI files
24 Bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Field Order A
DV Video Encoder -- type 2

I didn't pick up on this before. I also have options of Field Order B, Framebased

The explanation in the manual of Videostudio 7 is the following:

"Select a Frame type : Field Order A, Field Order B, or Frame-based. The first two types are best used for video to be viewed on TV. For computer video, a Framebased
frame type is commonly used."

What should I be setting this to and how does this affect the CCE option when feeding the PAL DV AVI from Videostudio?

KnightAzul

[Video Dude]

Just select the DV template in Ulead.
The default is Field Order A, which is Ulead's term for BFF.


CCE 2.66 only outputs TFF, so make sure you set the offset line to 1. You should also uncheck progressive and make sure you select alternate instead of zig zag.

[bigotti5]

CCE 2.66 only outputs TFF, so make sure you set the offset line to 1

There is no offset line option in CCE 2.66

Cinema Craft begin with offset line in Ver 2.67 - in 2.66 you have to check "upper field first"

[KnightAzul]

Arrrghh! It looks like the MPEG2's are fine and it is the way that I am playing them that is the problem ...

My setup is a PC connected to my 25" CRT TV with S-video. If I play them through WinDVD 6 then the picture is pretty poor with what would seem to be obvious mice-teeth interlacing problems.

If I play the same MPEG recorded onto a DVD on my standalone DVD player it plays very smooth and is good quality.

Any ideas?
KnightAzul

[DrP]

Make sure windvd is set to use bob de-interlacing or better (try to avoid 'auto' type settings) when viewing interlaced via TV out. TV out on most cards (Matrox excepted when the video is full frame/both fields) by itself will completely screw up fielding with lame scaler operations.

[KnightAzul]

I'll give it a shot ...

Still not convinced how it can remove jerkiness though since I suspect that the decoder will essentially drop and odd or even field (or do some clever merging), which means that I will be "missing" one field per frame and the frame rate won't increase on my CRT.

KnightAzul

[KnightAzul]

Deinstalled WinDVD Platinum 6 and installed the Nvidia Purevideo decoders. What a difference! Like night and day. The video now has no noticeable mice teeth and plays very smooth.

KnightAzul