Solid Codec for CD Backups? i've tried a few AAC's so far

[BITS]

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i've tried...

Helix @128 (HE..i think) with producer (btw this require to edit the xml everytime you change bitrates?)

FAAC @ -q 160 (LC) (the May 17th, 2005 build...which btw crashes at random).

NeroAAC @ 128 (HE)

aacPlus @ (i think it was 128)

anyways, to be honest FAAC sounds the best for my cd backups, which is LC. All three of the other ones in HE sound pretty hissy. The file sizes are much lower...but hissy. is there a HE coder out there that supports something higher than 128, or does this defeat the purpose of HE? i've read the faq, but what isn't clear is which to use for best possible quality at lowest bitrate. it sort of sounds like HE is the winner here, but @ 128 ? itunes is always high ranked (but i don't want to use that).

is MP4 something completely different than AAC (in the faq it shows a graph of it being completely different). i just want something to make my backups sound at cd quality at the lowest bitrate, and have a fly up my wazoo to try something else besides .ogg/.mp3.

Any suggestions at what settings? i know this is a very open, because what sounds best at lowest bitrates is what we all want right...but i just don't know more than what the FAQ has mentioned, and i'm alittle confused.
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[dimzon]

HE is not targeted for very big quality. It's targeted for extremaly low bitrates (64Kbps and below) and "good enought" quality. So LC profile encoder is much more better for encoding @ bitrates > 80kbps.

Apple iTunes build-in AAC LC encoder is the best (atm)
Nero AAC LC (fast mode) is near to Apple's one
FAAC is wrost

[stephanV]

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anyways, to be honest FAAC sounds the best for my cd backups, which is LC. All three of the other ones in HE sound pretty hissy. The file sizes are much lower...but hissy. is there a HE coder out there that supports something higher than 128, or does this defeat the purpose of HE?
Yes it does. HE will never sound really good for music, it will at best sound acceptable

is MP4 something completely different than AAC (in the faq it shows a graph of it being completely different).
MP4 is a container; AAC can be placed (and normally is placed) in that container.

i just want something to make my backups sound at cd quality at the lowest bitrate, and have a fly up my wazoo to try something else besides .ogg/.mp3.
I doubt you will find an AAC encoder that will do (significantly) better than Vorbis or even Lame considering your demands.

[BITS]

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Thanks for the replies. i will try itunes i guess, but not sure if it will work for me. i take it AAC audio is not for anything else besides what is "acceptable". i new .mp4 was a container, but maybe i was meaning MPC? (not sure what i meant).

What is deemed "CD Quality" in .ogg ~?

Anything that is as good as .mp3/.ogg but smaller in size (any size at all...even 20KB), is what i'm on the look out for. i'll stick with .ape/mp3 for my sounds for now, hopefully something comes along that can replace .mp3. But then again, it does a wonderful job.

i chose FAAC because it did more than 128kbits...i haven't seen another one that does yet.
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[stephanV]

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Thanks for the replies. i will try itunes i guess, but not sure if it will work for me. i take it AAC audio is not for anything else besides what is "acceptable".
HE-AAC isnt. LC-AAC is. But current encoders are not better than Vorbis.
but maybe i was meaning MPC? (not sure what i meant).
Maybe you mean Musepack, for a long time it has been regarded as the best encoder for transparency on hydrogenaudio.org, but it appears that Vorbis is slowly taking over that crown thanks to the tunings by Aoyumi.
What is deemed "CD Quality" in .ogg ~?
That depends a bit on your hearing capabilities, so I can't make any good suggestion for that. But what is good enough for MP3 for you, should normally be more than enough for Vorbis (stop calling it .ogg :p)

Anything that is as good as .mp3/.ogg but smaller in size (any size at all...even 20KB), is what i'm on the look out for.
You won't find that.

[Mug Funky]

What is deemed "CD Quality" in .ogg ~?

there is no CD quality in lossy audio formats. no mp3 will ever be CD quality, on account of it has less information in it. vorbis and AAC might possibly be able to go lossless (ie CD quality) but this would be a huge perversion of their specs, and will probably give you a larger file than the uncompressed PCM a CD contains.

there is, however "transparent", or perceptually transparent. this is typically defined as "the listened can't hear a difference between the compressed file and the original file in a double-blind test". if you can hear a difference, it's not transparent. if you think you can hear a difference, however, it may be your mind playing tricks on you :)

FYI, most audio codecs are transparent in a similar range of bitrates - from about 160 to 200kbps, give or take.

btw, i hear iTunes' LC AAC encoder is actually still really good. if you can stand the bloaty download, give it a try. i think FAAC will be catching up in a while. last time i heard there weren't actually any psymodel tunings at all in it - it sounded good because AAC as a codec is inherently good. with tuning it could be brilliant. possibly transparent to an audio-freek like me at 128kbps average, but i wont commit to that just yet :)

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oh, forgot to say: check out www.hydrogenaudio.org. it's aaaalll about this stuff, and has stacks of formal listening tests and stuff that you can look at to make a good choice of codec and implementation. careful when posting though - it's a "cold" sort of place if you get my meaning. lurk and you'll learn heaps, though.

[Caroliano]

Anything that is as good as .mp3/.ogg but smaller in sizei chose FAAC because it did more than 128kbits...
A bit contraditory, isn't? FAAC is currently one of the worst AAC encoders out there, but I hope it can turn in an Lame some day...

The point is: you can realy hear the diference between an AAC plus 64kbps and a FAAC 160kbps? Try a ABX/Double-blinded test to be sure. If you can't so why want more than 128kbps? If you can then don't try to lower the bitrate. For high bitrates Vorbis and even Lame are very good in the moment.