Simulate Hardware Stereo to Quadraphonic

[knarf829]

I came across a great item posted in the alt.binaries.beatles newsgroup. It was a repurpose of the stereo CD of Paul McCartney's RAM through a quad processor and then encoded to DTS.

The technical notes from the nfo file are below:
This DTS conversion a repurpose of the stereo cd to DTS. It was created by Cai Campbell by playing the stereo cd through a Sansui QS-1 decoder. The results were then encoded to DTS. It turned out quite nice. Hope you like it.

The results, being Quad, were four channel, but they were really, really nice.

All that leads up to my question: Is there a VST plug-in or other method that will simulate processing by the Sansui QS-1 decoder?

I've downloaded Quadraphonics from http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/. I'm not sure if this is what I'm looking for or not becuase it wasn't really mentioned in this conext.

I figured the experts here would know right off if this is possible. Ideally, I'd like to get the quad like it came out of the Sansui QS-1 and then make a center channel out of the LR Fronts.

[knarf829]

OK - in the light of day I've had a chance to do some experiments in Nuendo.

First, the Quadraphonics VST plugin from http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/ does produce output similar to what I was hearing on the DTS of RAM run through the Sansui QS-1 Decoder.

I set up nuendo using the VI Stereo to 5.1 Instructions (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85694), and then substituted the SQ Decode Quadraphonics plugin for VI in the 5.1 output section. Exported a mixdown. The result was 4 mono wave files with data (LF, RF, LR, RR) and two with no sound data but of equal size (Center and LFE). So far so good. Encoded to DTS in SurCode. You're obviously never going to match the output of an expensive piece of hardware with a free software plugin, but it was decent. So far so good.

Then I got to the task of making a center channel. Here's what I did...


Open the original song Wav in WinAmp with the "Center Cut" DSP plugin (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t17450.html) (Center - Mono Mode) and output a wav file of the center channel of the original file.
Opened that wav in CoolEdit, made it mono.
Changed the "Center Cut" settings to "Sides - Stereo" and output a wav of that
Opened the "Sides - Stereo" file in Nuendo and ran it through the SQ Decode Quadraphonics plugin, outputting the 4 mono wave files with data (1-LF, 2-RF, 3-LR, 4-RR) and two with no sound data but of equal size (5-Center and 6-LFE).
Encoded to DTS in SurCode, using the LF, RF, LR, RR from Nuendo, the Center from WinAmp and the blank LFE from Nuendo

The results were not so great. The center channel level was way low and was out of synch with the other 4 channels.

I ran a second similar experiment...

Opened original file in CoolEdit and ran a low pass filter at 110 Hz to generate LFE. Saved as Mono Wav
Opened original file in CoolEdit again and reversed the first filter to get everything above 110 Hz. Saved as a Stereo Wav (We'll call that High Pass Wav)
Opened High Pass Wav in WinAmp with the "Center Cut" DSP plug in (Center - Mono Mode) and output a wav file of the center channel of High Pass. This is High Pass Center.
Saved High Pass Center as Mono in CoolEdit
Opened High Pass Wav in WinAmp with the "Center Cut" settings to "Sides - Stereo" and output a wav of that. This is High Pass Sides
Opened High Pass Sides in Nuendo and ran it through the SQ Decode Quadraphonics plugin, outputting the 4 mono wave files with data (1-LF, 2-RF, 3-LR, 4-RR) and two with no sound data but of equal size (5-Center and 6-LFE).
Encoded to DTS in SurCode, using the LF, RF, LR, RR from Nuendo, the Center from WinAmp and the LFE the Low Pass filter.

The results were as you would expect...the volume of the LFE and Center were way low, and they were out of synch. This, however, produced the best separation of instruments and channels. It sounded PHENOMENAL except for those two issues.

Any thoughts or suggestions on this method of converting stereo to 5.1? Is this the same as other methods listed here, just done in a more difficult way? The results do not sound similar to any of the other method discussed (and running it straight through SQ Decode sounds wonderful except for the hole where the center channel should be).

[knarf829]

OK - I think I hit it this time...


Opened original file in CoolEdit and ran a low pass filter at 110 Hz to generate LFE. Saved as Mono Wav
Opened original file in CoolEdit again and reversed the first filter to get everything above 110 Hz. Saved as a Stereo Wav (We'll call that High Pass Wav)
Opened High Pass Wav in Nuendo and ran it through the SQ Decode Quadraphonics plugin (make sure your output doesn't clip), outputting the 4 mono wave files with data (1-LF, 2-RF, 3-LR, 4-RR) and two with no sound data but of equal size (5-Center and 6-LFE).
Opened LF and RF in CoolEdit. Pasted them as L and R of a new Stereo File (Stereo Front)
Opened Stereo Front in WinAmp with the "Center Cut" DSP plug in (Center - Mono Mode) and output a wav file of the center channel (Center). Converted to Mono in CoolEdit.
Opened Stereo Front in WinAmp with the "Center Cut" settings to "Sides - Stereo" and output a wav of that. This is Front Sides.
Opened Front Sides in CoolEdit. Pasted the Left Channel into a new mono file (FL Sides) and pasted the Right Channel into a new mono file (FR Sides).
Encoded to DTS in SurCode, using FL Sides, FR Sides from CoolEdit (Step 7), LR, RR from Nuendo (Step 3), the Center from WinAmp (Step 5) and the LFE the Low Pass filter (Step 1).

These are the results I was looking for. Perfect balance and synch. Great instrument and voice separation.

Any comments on this method? Any suggestions on a way to simplify? Any suggestions on a better low pass LFE frequency?

[knarf829]

Thanks for that pointer - I'd forgotten about dtsac3.com. Not very active over there, but there is some good info for sure.

Unfortunately, as the bidule has expired, bidule based methods have become less desirable for me. I'm basically looking to work this stereo->Quad->5.1 method in Nuendo.

The Quadraphonic VST plugin has proven to be quite good. I wish there was a VST plugin to mimic the Sansui QS so I can compare.

Basically, I've gotten the method I like (described above), but I'm just looking for VST plugins to do it all through Nuendo.

I need a VST plugin to give me a center channel and then to invert what it has done (subtract that center channel) to create the two front channels.

I've been poking around on google, but I'm not seeing too much along these lines of VST Plugins.

Any suggestions that aren't bidule based?

[ursamtl]

You know, with a bit of routing gymnastics, you could come up with the center channel and inverted center in Nuendo without any VST plugins. It's just a matter of duplicating channels, and then carefully inverting some before combining them with non-inverted ones.

First of all, the most common approach to a center channel is normally the sum of the left and right at 50%. As for the subtraction from the left and right, since the center channel is the sum of the left and right, you can simply do a L+inverted R for the new left, and a R+inverted L for the new right. Because inverting a channel reverses its polarity, adding the inverted channel to another channel is the same thing as "subtracting the non-inverted channel. When you do this, remember that if you have both channels at the same volume level, you'll end up with just the difference between the two channels since the sounds common to both channels disappear due to the inverted and non-inverted versions cancelling each other out. You might try making the inverted channels only half as loud when combining them. This will provide you with something similar to the LCR methods posted here last year, which was a copy of material originally published to the Sursound mailing list.

As for the 90° phase shift in the Sansui decoder formula, there is an excellent freeware plugin called PhaseBug available here (http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/VST/PhaseBug.zip). There are two versions, a stereo and a mono. I might add that I have seen some mention lately on Sursound that the 90° phase shift in Ambisonic equations is not really required, but this may not be the case for quadraphonic approaches. Then again, if you're decoding stereo material with a decoder designed for material that's properly encoded for quad, it's not really "quadraphonic." Just let your ears be the judge. If it sounds good, go for it!

Again, with a bit of careful planning in Nuendo, you could come up with an emulation of the Sansui QS decoder and add the center channel, as I mentioned above. It might not be as user friendly as Plogue Bidule, but it is possible. On the other hand, if you can afford it, Bidule is not very expensive compared to a lot of software, and as I said earlier in the thread, it is a tremendous value for the small price they are asking. I've also found that David and Seb provide excellent and rapid support whenever I've had questions. They definitely deserve the support more than the Bill Gates' of the world! :)

[knarf829]

Brilliant post, ursamtl. I will experiment like a madman on what you've provided here.

I agree that Plogue Bidule is not expensive. However, I think I've spent what I'm going to spend at this point on sound software as a hobby, and I really would like to do it with what I've already bought.

I'll report back on what goes right and wrong once I have a chance to play around based on your excellent suggestions.

[knarf829]

knarf829: Do you use Audition v 1.5 (or higher) or the earlier CoolEdit software ? If it is Audition 1.5, you can use a couple a scripts (without need for additional VST's) to mimic a Sansui QSD-1. This will give you the corner speaker feeds, to which you then can add derived C and LFE feeds using your method of choice.

I purchased prior to the take over, so I'm using Cool Edit 2000 (with the Multitrack studio addon).

The "Center Cut" DSP Plugin for WinAmp (apparently made from a VirtualDub filters "Center Cut" and "Center Mix") does exactly what I'm looking for (Creates a Center Channel in one mode, reverses the process to give a stereo image with the center channel subtracted in another). Having to go in and out of WinAmp and open/edit the files in Cool Edit to accomplish it is the clunky part. That's why I was looking for a VST plug in to do the same thing.

I'm thinking creating a VST plugin based on the WinAmp plug in is probably too complicated for me, since I couldn't even get ursamtl's suggestions working right when I tried briefly last night. I'm more ambitious than my limited talents should allow. ;)

I guess I'm stuck going back and forth between Nuendo, WinAmp and Cool Edit (since I'm too cheap (and too married) to buy all new software and too honest to download and use the cracked versions :)

[ursamtl]

Ok well here's something to play with. This evening I threw together a new VST plugin to take a stereo input and create a center while subtracting it from the left and right. The plugin, which I call 2-2-3, has one simple knob. Turn it to the right and you get maximum center channel and maximum subtraction. If the knob is all the way to the left, there is no center channel and the left and right outputs are the same as the source left and right. The settings in between vary the balance between the new center and the phantom center created by the stereo channels.

Simply copy the dll file to your default VST plugins folder. You can download it here:

2-2-3 CENTER CHANNEL GENERATOR VST PLUGIN (http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/223.zip)
Please let me know how this works for you. I'll clean it up and add a better interface in the near future and then include it in the next V.I suite release.

Regards,
Steve.

[knarf829]

First off, I want to thank you. I wish I had the knowledge to do something like this. It is very much appreciated, and I'm sure there are many here who will benefit from this.

Entirely functional and wonderful. I never really know how something turns out until I can burn it and blast it, but in the headphones it appears to do exactly what you describe.

I just want to verify that to get the maximum stereo separation and center channel when I export to wavs that I should put the dial at about 5. Like you said above, 0 is no center channel at all. When I crank it to 10, I get a big center channel but the L-R that come out appear to be exactly the same. Is that right?

[daphy]

THX Steve, new toy to play with!

What do you think about to make something like a Q-Sound coding for SL,SR?

[f@chance]

Ok well here's something to play with. This evening I threw together a new VST plugin to take a stereo input and create a center while subtracting it from the left and right.

Please let me know how this works for you. I'll clean it up and add a better interface in the near future and then include it in the next V.I suite release.
Sounds fantastic. First off I totally agree with you and the Plogue Bidule price and the features it offers. Because of your VST plugin I bought it. This should give you definetly a hearing ear from the coders because without your VST no purchase.

Secondly is this the approach that you had in mind for the music/movie switch on the V.I. suite? I just finished reworking the Stargate Atlantis sound track and found that there was not enough separation in the Front Sound stage with the default settings. I took the stereo sound track and encoded it with Softencode to DD 2.0 with surround information and my Yamaha receiver using PL II did an excellent job with the sound reproduction, in my opinion it edged out the DD 5.1 generated with the V.I. suite.

I am looking forward to the update in the V.I. suite. Like knarf829 I am only a few months at this and get to like the separating of the soundtrack into Mono WAV files and then massaging the individual tracks to my liking, to finally encode them to DD 5.1. However it is time consuming and your solution is excellent.I hope that your situation in real life will allow you to further perfect the V.I. suite.

[ursamtl]

First off, I want to thank you. I wish I had the knowledge to do something like this. It is very much appreciated, and I'm sure there are many here who will benefit from this.

Entirely functional and wonderful. I never really know how something turns out until I can burn it and blast it, but in the headphones it appears to do exactly what you describe.

I just want to verify that to get the maximum stereo separation and center channel when I export to wavs that I should put the dial at about 5. Like you said above, 0 is no center channel at all. When I crank it to 10, I get a big center channel but the L-R that come out appear to be exactly the same. Is that right?
Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. Your assumptions about the settings are right. At 0, you have just the original left and right channels. At 10, you have the center channel with the sum of the source left and right channels, the left with the difference signal (L-R) and the right with the inverted difference signal -(L-R). In reality, the knob simply controls whether the sum (L+R) signal goes to the left and right channels or to the center. The settings in between vary how much goes to both, giving you a combination of the two.

[ursamtl]

Sounds fantastic. First off I totally agree with you and the Plogue Bidule price and the features it offers. Because of your VST plugin I bought it. This should give you definetly a hearing ear from the coders because without your VST no purchase.

Secondly is this the approach that you had in mind for the music/movie switch on the V.I. suite? I just finished reworking the Stargate Atlantis sound track and found that there was not enough separation in the Front Sound stage with the default settings. I took the stereo sound track and encoded it with Softencode to DD 2.0 with surround information and my Yamaha receiver using PL II did an excellent job with the sound reproduction, in my opinion it edged out the DD 5.1 generated with the V.I. suite.

I am looking forward to the update in the V.I. suite. Like knarf829 I am only a few months at this and get to like the separating of the soundtrack into Mono WAV files and then massaging the individual tracks to my liking, to finally encode them to DD 5.1. However it is time consuming and your solution is excellent.I hope that your situation in real life will allow you to further perfect the V.I. suite.
Thanks for the comments. Well I'm happy if my plugin encouraged you to buy Bidule. As I mentioned earlier, the folks at Plogue provide excellent support and have truly developed one of the most versatile and amazing audio programs in the field. There are other modular environments available, but none seem to offer the ease of use "out of the box."

Yes, 2-2-3 is a partial look at what I have in mind for Movie Mode in the next V.I release. I do have a couple of other tricks to throw in as well. Keep an eye out in the forum here as it won't be too long. In the meantime, one other approach to increasing separation with V.I v0.500 would be to move the width control to the right. Increasing the width augments the apparent separation. And as I mentioned before, moving the Center channel limiting threshold to the left in the Bidule layout will help make dialog more intelligible.

As I think you'll discover as you work with this stuff more, each recording requires its own approach. What I tried to do with V.I was to provide useful tools to even out these differences (the width control and front ambience for example), but in the end, the success of any conversion is dependent on how the source was recorded.

Regards,
Steve.

[f@chance]

Yes, 2-2-3 is a partial look at what I have in mind for Movie Mode in the next V.I release. I do have a couple of other tricks to throw in as well. Keep an eye out in the forum here as it won't be too long. In the meantime, one other approach to increasing separation with V.I v0.500 would be to move the width control to the right. Increasing the width augments the apparent separation. And as I mentioned before, moving the Center channel limiting threshold to the left in the Bidule layout will help make dialog more intelligible.

As I think you'll discover as you work with this stuff more, each recording requires its own approach. What I tried to do with V.I was to provide useful tools to even out these differences (the width control and front ambience for example), but in the end, the success of any conversion is dependent on how the source was recorded.

Regards,
Steve.
Brilliant I am looking forward to your tricks as they seem to enhance the viewing pleasure. I have started to compress the center & LFE channel now from 0.85 to 0.75 and it does nicely enhance the Center for dialogue and increas the LFE.

How true that each recording requires its own approach. I have written down different settings for different shows and each one is a custom job. Sometimes I think it is a curse to start dabling into improving video & audio reproduction in your home. Before I started on this I never noticed artifacts, Aspect Ratio screw-ups, sync issues in regular TV broadcasts. Now every flaw is starting to get noticed, ignorance truly is bliss :) Now I am starting to go down the same road in the audio field. However every now and then you hit an excellent production and you start to rave about it because no flaws. Just watched the Incredibles again and what an awsome sond track.

Thanks again for all your work and we are siting tight scanning the Doom9 audio forum for Steve's tricks in the newly reased V.I suite :D

[knarf829]

Thanks for that tip, kempfand. I probably should have mentioned this early in the thread in my trial and error notes, but I actually did a little experimentation with Extra Boy early on in the process. I was not all that impressed with the quality of the output (even in HiRes mode). Admittedly, I did not go into great detail with it. I may revisit Extra Boy as I play with this, though.

I will say that I went back and ran RAM through the Quadraphonics VST Plugin (http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/) in SQ Decode mode to compare it with what I heard as run through the Sansui. The results are very similar (to my untrained ear), and the Quadraphonics does do a good job of simulating a Sansui hardware decoder.

I'll play with Extra Boy a little more and report back. Maybe I abandoned it too quickly.

[ursamtl]

Thanks for that tip, kempfand. I probably should have mentioned this early in the thread in my trial and error notes, but I actually did a little experimentation with Extra Boy early on in the process. I was not all that impressed with the quality of the output (even in HiRes mode). Admittedly, I did not go into great detail with it. I may revisit Extra Boy as I play with this, though.

I will say that I went back and ran RAM through the Quadraphonics VST Plugin (http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/) in SQ Decode mode to compare it with what I heard as run through the Sansui. The results are very similar (to my untrained ear), and the Quadraphonics does do a good job of simulating a Sansui hardware decoder.

I'll play with Extra Boy a little more and report back. Maybe I abandoned it too quickly.

I had a similar impression of Extra Boy when I first tried it a few months ago. The phasing/flanging artifacts created by Extra Boy make it unsuitable for the kind of audio extraction and video soundtrack work we've been talking about here. The removal algorithm isn't quite so bad in hires mode (although if you listen carefully, the artifacts are still present), but the "isolate vocal" settings are most unpleasant! They remind me of some of those internet radio stations that stream at 28.8 or the effects on Cher's vocals in the song "Believe" a few years back. I do hope the technology of spectral isolation improves over the next few years as there is a lot of promise there. They just have to get rid of the artifacts! This applies to Adobe Audition as well. Its center extraction feature has a lot of promise but it's not quite there yet. Perhaps more computing power will help.

[ursamtl]

Yes Andreas, you're right. These are a matter of personal preference and careful use. When you say that the most respected quad experts on the scene prefer these tools, are you talking about Christian's plugins or are you referring to Extra Boy and Audition's Center Channel Extractor? If the former, then yes, it's understandable, but I don't believe that spectral methods are normally associated with the "classic" notion of quadraphonics. You're much more well versed on it than I am so perhaps I'm mistaken.

And, as you wrote, the same does not necessarily apply to stereo-to-surround conversion. Quad decoding might produce an interesting outcome, but it's designed for quad encoded material, not 2-channel stereo. Therefore, no matter what coefficients are used, be they fixed or variable, if one runs a stereo source through such a decoder, a successful result is more of an accident than a planned outcome.

Thanks for the e Kn0ck0ut VST reference. I notice that the demo mp3's also have that metallic flanging sound once the effect kicks in. I guess this is common to all the spectral stuff so far.

[knarf829]

Like I said, I didn't really get all that deeply into Extra Boy. I just ran through the presets, nothing struck me as sounding as good as Center Cut, and I closed it. The odd names for the settings make it difficult to use when you first look at it. I'll play with it some more.

ursamtl: Understood that this method of conversion is not technically "proper." Truly, though, any type of stereo repurposing is not technically proper. I have done a few CDs based on the method, and the results have been generally good. This is why I posted on it in detail, though, so it would get battered around and, eventually, improved. I'm more of a surround sound music fan than a technician (obviously). I do appreciate when you and kempfand debate and discuss the more technical aspects (and point out flaws in my thinking), because that's the only way I'm going to ever understand it.

On the topic of Center Cut, I have found this thread on another forum (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=17450&) where the WinAmp plugin was originally announced and discussed by the author (a VST plug in was discussed but not followed up on apparently), and this thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=33&t=17661) where the Foobar2000 Plugin was announced. The second link has a download that includes the source code. I don't know if that's helpful in any way.

I'm stuck on Center Cut, I know. It does produce some of the artifacts you discuss (not as severely as Extra Boy in my experience), but it also completely isolates only what's directly centered, and then completely removes that center leaving the rest of the stereo field in tact.

[ursamtl]

Knarf,

You made some good points. Let me just clarify one thing. I didn't mean to say that using a quad decoder on non-quad encoded material is not "proper." I was simply pointing out that we shouldn't get too caught up in applying the theory or fear deviating from the established calculations, because these are in fact designed for properly encoded material and not for plain stereo. Applying them to stereo material may produce good results, but that's only an accident, a happy one! I haven't tried Center Cut mainly because I dropped WinAmp altogether once I discovered how powerful Foobar was. I've just checked out Center Cut for Foobar and you're right, it's not nearly as bad as Extra Boy for artifacts. It does tend to remove almost all bass frequencies and a lot of highs too. I know these are often in the center channel anyway, but not all of them are. This could work to provide a nice atmospheric spread for background music in a movie soundtrack. Have you seen any mention of a VST version anywhere?

[knarf829]

Sadly, I have not been able to find any mention of a Center Cut VST plug in (believe me, I have been hitting google hard). Interestingly, the member of Hydrogenaudio who mentioned in the original thread (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=17450&) that he might have a go at coding the VST plugin was called specise_8472, and he is registered here too. I searched on specise and vst, but didn't come up with any follow up indicating he'd gone through with it.

I know you weren't attacking the method or me. You have been so incredibly helpful in this that I wanted you to know I understood the inherent limitations of what I'm trying to do here.

This little personal journey of mine through stereo-->5.1 methods is 100% about the music. It seems like every new way I try, I wind up hearing something new buried way deep in the mix of a song that I'd come to take for granted. That's what's exciting about it for me. When you separate 2 into 5, you hear a new world. That's why isolation and a full wide stereo field as intended (rather than adding echo or delay) is key for me.

I thank you all for your continued help - here and also in threads I read like a madman but never posted in.

[ursamtl]

You're absolutely right about the excitement this "journey" can bring. Back when I was in university in the 70's I discovered something called a Hafler circuit in one of those 1001 electronic projects magazines. It provided a pseudo-surround effect by connecting a speaker across the two positive speaker outputs, resulting in a difference signal going to the speaker. By today's standards, it might be somewhat primitive (although Dolby Pro Logic II's music mode is basically the same thing with a couple of tweaks), but the door it opened up into the center of the music mixes was amazing. The one big reason I added the on/off switch to V.I was to be able to switch back and forth instantly between the two version to hear just what's happening to the sound. It truly amazes me how stuff that's buried in the mix or sitting there sounding one-dimensional jumps out and takes on a whole new level of realism when the the plugin is switched on. It's almost like putting on the special glasses glasses at a 3D film.

One thing I noticed is that you mentioned that it's 100% about the music. There is one school of thought that believes music should never have a center channel at all! I was reading comments about this recently on the Sursound mailing list. Some people feel that a center channel should only be used for movies to help "lock" the dialog to the screen. I'm not entirely convinced of this myself, but it does provide food for thought. One thing I do need needs to be avoided it piping all the vocals or dialog through just the center speaker. That can end up sounding like a mono source sitting in the middle of a separate stereo field, with the whole thing sounding disjointed. That might give maximum separation, but the whole listening experience isn't as unified or full.

Yes, specise_8472 has done some VSTs for these threads, although he doesn't seem as active on this forum lately. You might also talk to johnman on here. He's a very talented programmer who's done some amazing work on wavewizard. I use a development program to do my VST plugins. I did start studying C++ but I'm not nearly at the level required to take the source code for Center Cut and turn it into a VST plugin. I did look at it and some of the code looks quite understandable, but I'm not ready to start coding on that level yet.

Have a good weekend,
Steve.

[f@chance]

Ok well here's something to play with. This evening I threw together a new VST plugin to take a stereo input and create a center while subtracting it from the left and right. The plugin, which I call 2-2-3, has one simple knob. Turn it to the right and you get maximum center channel and maximum subtraction. If the knob is all the way to the left, there is no center channel and the left and right outputs are the same as the source left and right. The settings in between vary the balance between the new center and the phantom center created by the stereo channels.

Simply copy the dll file to your default VST plugins folder. You can download it here:

2-2-3 CENTER CHANNEL GENERATOR VST PLUGIN (http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/223.zip)
Please let me know how this works for you. I'll clean it up and add a better interface in the near future and then include it in the next V.I suite release.

Regards,
Steve.
Steve, I played around with it trying to correct a messed up sound track and I like the center speaker's enhanced dialogue. Created the front and left and center MONO WAV files. But I have a few questions and maybe I over looked something on how to operate it.

I added a 2 channel Audio File player and opened the stereo file with it. Connected the two outputs to the 2-2-3 two inputs. I assumed that the left pin is Left and the Right pin is Right.

Opened three 1 channel Audio Recorders. Connected the 1st output pin of the VST to the 1st recorder and saved it as Left.wav. Connected the 2nd output pin of the VST to the 2nd Audio recorder and saved it as Right.wav. Connected the 3rd output pin of the VST to the 3rd recorder and saved it as Center.wav. Sofar so good but now when I click on the play button of the player the recorders don't start in sync, am I missing a step here.

To correct that I started all three recorders then started the player and fixed it in Sound forge by deleting the blank part at the beginning and end.

I do like the way it produces the front sound stage and I am trying to encode it as DD 5.1 with the 3 Sourround & LFE files generated with the V.I VST.

Any help on starting this thing in sync with the player?

Thanks

[ursamtl]

Hi f@chance,

It's really not too complicated once you've done it a couple of times. Click the Parameters button in Bidule and expand the "tree branches" for each device you want to link. Expand the Audio File Player branch on the left Source pane, and each of the three Recorders in the right Target pane. Select Play on the Audio File Player and Recording on the first Recorder. Click the Link button. Your linked objects appear in the bottom pane. Scroll down in the top right Target pane to the second Recorder and select its Recording "leaf" (leave the left pane player selection there). Click the Link button again. Your second pair of linked objects appear in the bottom pane. Repeat this again to link the Player's Play "leaf" to the third Recorder's Recording leaf. With all this in place, turn Bidule's processing off clicking the Off toggle button at the top of the screen. Set up your filenames for the recorders, etc., and when ready, click the player's Play button. Click the On toggle button at the top of the screen to turn the whole thing on all at once.I haven't tried three separate recorders going at once, but I seem to recall reading something about possible sync problems. Still, it's worth a try. Let us know how you make out.

[f@chance]

...I haven't tried three separate recorders going at once, but I seem to recall reading something about possible sync problems. Still, it's worth a try. Let us know how you make out.
I knew I was missing something, thanks a lot. I will try later when I get home. Now regarding the possible sync problem how would you save the 3 channel output from the 2-2-3 to a file? Take a 4 channel and leave one empty?

Sorry for this but I am new at the whole bidule thingy but I like it.

[ursamtl]

You could just add a 3-channel recorder and then split the files later using Besweet, WaveWizard or other file splitting programs. Still, go ahead and try the three single-channel recorders. In theory, they should work, especially if you sync them as I described.

[f@chance]

I tried the hooking them up so that the player starts everything and it works like a charm. But regarding the 3 channel recorder, they go 1, 2, 4, 6 channels NO 3 channel, am I missing something again?

Thanks

[ursamtl]

No, I am! It's been awhile since I actually looked at the palette in Bidule to see what's available. I set my default layout to one with a 2-channel player and 6-channel recorder, so I'm rarely adding from the list of available recorders. Anyway, if you got it working with the three single-channel recorders, great!

[ursamtl]

Daphy suggested I make my default bidule layout available as a download, so here it is (http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/defaultbidule.zip). Simply download this, then unzip and open it. If you've got a different Audio Device setup from ASIO4ALL, then you'll have to substitute yours for the ASIO4ALL output I have on mine. When you have the layout set up the way you want it, simply choose Set current patch as default from Bidule's Edit menu. You can do this with any layout you choose and then whenever you open Bidule in the future, your chosen default layout will be there.

Enjoy!
Steve.

[ursamtl]

THX Steve, new toy to play with!

What do you think about to make something like a Q-Sound coding for SL,SR?

Ok well here is a simply pasive QS decoder based on a circuit on the Wendy Carlos web site and using Christian Budde's excellent Phasebug plugin (with his permission).

You can download DeKQS here (http://stevethomson.ca/audio/guides/DeKQS.zip). I'm actually fairly impressed with the surround field it gives. I still prefer V.I because it seems to extract more room ambience, but DeKQS isn't bad at all.

Enjoy!