wave 5.1 -> ogg 5.1

[soundino]

Please, help!!! :confused:
I tried to make it in BeSweet and have received the following:

Comand Line:

BeSweet.exe -core( -input g:\fin1_N(1).wav -output g:\fin1_N.ogg -logfilea C:\BeSweet.log ) -ota( -hybridgain ) -ogg( -q 0.200 -6ch ) -boost( /b2=5 )

--------------------------
BeSweet v1.5b31 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using Ogg Vorbis v1.0 dlls (http://www.vorbis.com).
Manual Dynamic-Compression algorithm by LigH (author of WaveBooster).

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : g:\fin1_N(1).wav
[00:00:00:000] | Output: g:\fin1_N.ogg
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] | PostGain normalize to : 0.97
Error 68: 6chogg only works with 48khz streams.
Gain & Dynamic Compression should be set against azid.

Quiting...
[00:00:00:000] Conversion Completed !

[Kurtnoise]

Unfortunately, BeSweet doesn't work with wav 5.1 as input concerning vorbis 5.1 transcoding. Use directly your ac3 stream as input or oggenc which supports wav 5.1 as well.

[johnman]

Or you could give wavewizard a try if u like GUI's or want batching. (it uses oggenc btw)

[Rockaria]

If the wavewizard(sorry, I am not up-to-date with it yet) supports ac3 decoding(or pipe in), channel mapping and pipe put(for the recent aotuv b4 encoder), it would be a perfect solution.
When I tried the transcoding using AviSynth(channel mapping & avs2wav) with any versions of command line vorbis encoder, I got terrible surround, which I suspect because of the poor/no channel coupling implementation. I am interested in other's test results to see if the vorbis can be another multichannel transcoding substitution... ;)

[johnman]

If the wavewizard(sorry, I am not up-to-date with it yet) supports ac3 decoding(or pipe in), channel mapping and pipe put(for the recent aotuv b4 encoder), it would be a perfect solution.
When I tried the transcoding using AviSynth(channel mapping & avs2wav) with any versions of command line vorbis encoder, I got terrible surround, which I suspect because of the poor/no channel coupling implementation. I am interested in other's test results to see if the vorbis can be another multichannel transcoding substitution... ;)

The most recent release cant decode anything (the next one will decode ac3, dts and maybe mp3 but its still some time until this is released). It can only do wav -> 10 other formats. And since the topic was 5.1 wav to 5.1 ogg i thought i should mention ww. It does support channelmapping.

I dont know how good ogg is in multichannel transcoding, but i thought ogg is VBR and because of this not really suited for audiostream in movies. mc stream are usually used for movies, so i dont expect ogg to be really a substitution for mc files.

BTW what is so terrible about the surround? Is it broken, or just the usual low bitrate artifacts?

[Rockaria]

Yeah, the original quest was indeed for 5.1ch wav transcoding.. Where has come the AC3 btw? :D
I've also tried vorbis mc transcoding on foobar2k(0.83) before with no channel mapping, which resulted in a poor channel seperation(broken) and echoing.
With Avisynth channel mapping(1-3-2-5-6-4?), the right front and rear are clearly broken and echoing. Might I be doing something wrong?

[johnman]

Where has come the AC3 btw? :D

I dont understand the question, but if you want to know when the ac3 support comes in ww, il release it when its ready ;).

I've also tried vorbis mc transcoding on foobar2k(0.83) before with no channel mapping, which resulted in a poor channel seperation(broken) and echoing.
With Avisynth channel mapping(1-3-2-5-6-4?), the right front and rear are clearly broken and echoing. Might I be doing something wrong?

I tried ww and converted a 2 ch wav to 6 ch wav like this
ch0,ch1 -> ch0, ch1, ch0, ch1, ch0,ch1
i encoded it to ogg and back and splitted up the resulting wav from oggdec to mono.
all ch0's were identical, and all ch1's were different when i hex compared them. But in the couple of seconds i listened to it, i could not hear anything really broken in any of the files. But this doesnt mean to much since i also listen to mp3's @ 128 bps CBR :). I dont know if you're doing something wrong, but you might try ww. I dont know if this makes any difference, but you never know :).

[Rockaria]

Thanks, I will test it to figure out the capability of the ww soon. ;)
The ogg vorbis might also have the problem in multi channel decoding depending on the decoder versions, cause I have an impression it has not been implemented & tuned fully on multi channel.

One thing I can suggest for the input support for the ww(I remember some while ago some suggestions were asked) is to support the direct show input, which virtually supports any formats through existing dsfilters.
So is it safe to conclude the WW supports both pipe in&out for command line decoders and encoders?

[johnman]

One thing I can suggest for the input support for the ww(I remember some while ago some suggestions were asked) is to support the direct show input, which virtually supports any formats through existing dsfilters.
So is it safe to conclude the WW supports both pipe in&out for command line decoders and encoders?


Im always open for suggestions :). But direct show filters isnt something i have planned, and this has a reason. I dont know much about it, but i dont like to rely on anything i cant supply together with ww, or atleast test myself. Since testing all filters is out of the question and since a lot of the interesting ones cant be distributed freely, i dont really like direct show filters.

And ww does NOT support any piping of any kind. A long time ago i had a commandline option, so ww can be run from cli. But since nobody seems to use ww from dos, i removed this. This is also when i decided that supporting piping would be mostly a waste of time.

But this all is going way off-topic... so lets stop talking about ww and try to get the best 5.1 ogg output possible :)

[Rockaria]

Im always open for suggestions :). But direct show filters isnt something i have planned, and this has a reason. I dont know much about it, but i dont like to rely on anything i cant supply together with ww, or atleast test myself. .. supporting piping would be mostly a waste of time.

But this all is going way off-topic... so lets stop talking about ww and try to get the best 5.1 ogg output possible :)
The direct show plugin does not require to test every dsfilters. Look at foobar, vlc and winamp. They have been supporting their own plugins. Now winamp has changed. It has the in-dshow plugin virtually open to any dsfilters. Also look at the trend of foobar2k 0.9 beta(GUI) focusing on the cli supports. They say developing corresponding redundant foo_encoders is TRUE WASTE of time.
It's OK for me if you have decided not to support those functions. But not appropreate comments on the suggestions must be adjusted, which is why I extend one more post, if you excuse me. ;)

[johnman]

The direct show plugin does not require to test every dsfilters.

I agree 100%, its not required, but i like to do it. This way i know for sure if ww does something wrong, its a problem with ww, and not some half installed beta direct show filter. Once ww is getting stable (near v1.0) , the situation is different ofcourse.


Also look at the trend of foobar2k 0.9 beta(GUI) focusing on the cli supports. They say developing corresponding redundant foo_encoders is TRUE WASTE of time.


ww supports encoding ONLY by cli programs because that is easier for me, and easier for the user to change the encoder (if it uses the same cli commands). Again i agree 100%. I dont make custome dll's, plugins or anything of that kind for encoding. It would mean a lot of work for me to stay up-to-date with 9 different encoders.

But controlling ww by cli isnt a much sought after feature, but really, if there is demand for it, i will add it. But since im adding a lot of new stuff , i would have to change some of the cli commands from time to time, which is just asking for trouble. When i get near to a v1.0 release,ill see if there is demand for cli support (with piping).


It's OK for me if you have decided not to support those functions. But not appropreate comments on the suggestions must be adjusted, which is why I extend one more post, if you excuse me. ;)
No problem, but i kind of had the feeling i was flooding this topic with ww. Since im the author of it, some ppl might think "there he goes again with his program". ;)

[movax]

I guess it's already been said before, but Vorbis has poor multichannel coupling...HE-AAC is the way to go for 5.1 AC3/DTS compression. I've heard some people planning a better Vorbis with multichannel though (plus the requisite decoder as well).

[johnman]

I guess it's already been said before, but Vorbis has poor multichannel coupling...HE-AAC is the way to go for 5.1 AC3/DTS compression. I've heard some people planning a better Vorbis with multichannel though (plus the requisite decoder as well).

Does the poor multichannel channel coupling cause high bitrates or low quality when using the quality cli option?

[soundino]

Thank you all for an interesting discussion.
Why did I put this question?
To my mind, ogg sounds more "musical", than other formats. Sitting in a studio, I compared different formats and on the subjective opinion not the enough sound correctly, it is Enough to listen both HE-AAC and aac+v.1,2. hight frequencies (especially in films with natural by noise) and plus the "clutched" sounding in general.
I understand that to me can object by every matemmatycheskymy comparisons, and I even will understand them, but whether their simple user which is oriented by own ear feelings will understand.
I not professional programyst, and it was desirable to know, khotyaby broadly speaking, in what a reason or difficulty is in realization of this transformation.
By the way, collecting information on this occasion, I where subtracted that perfection of format of ogg vorbis is complete. If so, it very it is sorry.
So all the same, who can give what nybud' recommendations on suschetsvu of question.
By the way, I used the program of wavewizard and she to me really help (AC3->wave, editing ->wavewizard with channal mapping for AC3 files -> BeSweet wave5.1->AC3).
Sorry to my bad English.