Getting a 24.000 FPS stream from a NTSC DVD.

[Sergejack]

I would like to get the original 24.000 FPS stream (without any drop frame) from a DVD of mine, I searched for a while (3 hours now) and I didn't find the answer.
Pls help.

[Guest]

In DGIndex, choose Video/Field Operation/Force Film.

That will give you 23.976. If you want 24.000, you'll have to use AssumeFPS(24.000) in your Avisynth script and shrink the audio so that it keeps the same duration as the video. You can use CoolEdit or equivalent for the audio.

Bear in mind that Force Film will work only for 3:2 pulled down video (soft telecine). If your DVD is hard-telecined, you'll have to use Honor Pulldown Flags in DGIndex and then use an IVTC filter, such as Decomb.

[foxyshadis]

If you're using avisynth, I strongly advise you to start with the dgindex (http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/DGIndexManual.html#FieldOp) field documentation and the decomb (http://neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html) documentation. Check out the links in the first one for more information.

neuron2:
Minor dgindex documentation link issues... There's no #Top name for the ToC links, and the link to field operation is FieldOP while the name is FieldOp... IE doesn't seem to care, but other browsers won't jump.

[Sergejack]

In DGIndex, choose Video/Field Operation/Force Film.

That will give you 23.976. If you want 24.000, you'll have to use AssumeFPS(24.000) in your Avisynth script and shrink the audio so that it keeps the same duration as the video. You can use CoolEdit or equivalent for the audio.

Bear in mind that Force Film will work only for 3:2 pulled down video (soft telecine). If your DVD is hard-telecined, you'll have to use Honor Pulldown Flags in DGIndex and then use an IVTC filter, such as Decomb.

No I don't want to get a 23.976fps, lose drop frames then turn it into 24fps.
I want the one and true (24.000 FPS) RAW stream, all the flags discarded.

[Guest]

If you just want the raw encoded frames, use Ignore Pulldown Flags.

The DVD stores 23.976 soft-pulled-down to 29.97.

[Sergejack]

If you just want the raw encoded frames, use Ignore Pulldown Flags.

The DVD stores 23.976 soft-pulled-down to 29.97.

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/synch.htm
Here it is said that the DVD stores 24.000 and a time code introduce drop frame.

I want to keep EVERY source frame and get that 24.000 FPS back.

[Kika]

Please read the text you linked again!

Don't get a wrong concept of DROP_FRAME as "FRAMES being REMOVED or DROPPED".

[Sergejack]

Please read the text you linked again!

I read it and I understood it.
Let me explain to you then: those frames still exist in the data source but not in the rendered stream (so who would encode from the rendered stream will lose those frames)

[stephanV]

Force film is exactly what you want, it does not remove frames and gives you the original video. It just ignores pulldown flags (which, again, is what you want).

[Kika]

Yeah, as neuron2 told him two times...

[foxyshadis]

24fps is only an approximation. Very few dvds are actually mastered at full 24; most are 23.976 because it's more compatible with NTSC.

[Guest]

I've never seen a DVD mastered at 24fps. You'd need "drop frames" for audio as well as video, wouldn't you?

As I said, use Ignore Pulldown Flags to retrieve every coded picture exactly as it is in the stream. If there is irregular pulldown, you'll screw up audio sync.

[Sergejack]

I've never seen a DVD mastered at 24fps. You'd need "drop frames" for audio as well as video, wouldn't you?

As I said, use Ignore Pulldown Flags to retrieve every coded picture exactly as it is in the stream. If there is irregular pulldown, you'll screw up audio sync.

How to know how a DVD is mastered ?

[foxyshadis]

I've never seen a DVD mastered at 24fps. You'd need "drop frames" for audio as well as video, wouldn't you?
I didn't want to say none, since I wasn't sure, but yeah.

Serge, I'll link the dgindex (http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/DGIndexManual.html#FieldOp) docs again for you, which tells you how to identify how a dvd is encoded (ie, dgindex info window) and which option should be used.

[mg262]

read it and I understood it.
Let me explain to you then: those frames still exist in the data source but not in the rendered stream (so who would encode from the rendered stream will lose those frames)Just to clarify... that is not what the source you read was trying to say. (Whether or not it put it clearly is another matter.) If I remember correctly, its not frames that are dropped but time codes... but in any case, you might be well advised to find a second (and maybe third) source to read.

[Sergejack]

Just to clarify... that is not what the source you read was trying to say. (Whether or not it put it clearly is another matter.) If I remember correctly, its not frames that are dropped but time codes...

What's its impact on the rendered video, then ?

[mg262]

None.The DVD stores 23.976 soft-pulled-down to 29.97.As I understand it, because it's a nuisance for editors to have to work with multiples of 23.976 in their time codes, they just pretend it's 24. But this is outside my area of interest -- I recommend Google...

[Kika]

@Sergejack
This Drop_Frame-Thing only impacts the playback of a FILM while using 3:2-Pulldown. If you are using the stored Movie AS IS (like neuron2 mentioned), you will get a file with 23.976 fps without any dropped frames or something else (if the 3:2-Pulldown is a correct one).

The Guide you've read may be helpfull if you plan to capture a DVD by using a TV-Card, but it is useless in your case.

[Matthew]

As far as the original question is concerned, conceptually it's not complex, you don't need to understand pulldown patterns, drop frame, etc:
-Film is 24 fps.
-The frames in the film are encoded as is. If the film has 1000 frames, the video used in authoring has 1000 frames.
-The framerate on the m2v is set at 23.976. This is just a flag - everything happens in (very slight) slow motion. You could change the fps to 5 if you like, and this would be an extreme version. With PAL 25 fps is used, but you see everything you do in the cinema, just faster.
-For NTSC pulldown is applied, these are just flags that ensure frames are repeated by the dvdplayer and the NTSC spec of 29.97 is satisfied. So you are seeing the same data more than once.
-The audio must be slowed down slightly (or sped up for PAL) as the duration of the video has changed due to the change in playback rate.

I hope this information isn't superfluous...

[Guest]

frames are repeated Fields are repeated.

[Matthew]

I was wondering if someone would point that out :) I said frames for simplicity only (although I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the pulldown pattern), to achieve my aim I probably should have used the word "data" instead.