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Old 13th December 2002, 19:55   #1  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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RealVideo 9/10/'NGV' Information


2015/07/15: RealNetworks Introduces RealMedia HD combines ultra-clear picture quality and compression efficiency (Chinese only, but Google Translate does a decent job.) More info in English: RealMedia HD

*) This was developed entirely by RealNetworks' Beijing office, and I am unable to answer any questions. I did visit them a couple of times when their project started. It is targeted for the Chinese market, I just wanted to share this news on behalf of the Beijing team.

2012/01/26: Intel to Buy Patents and Next Generation Video Codec Software from RealNetworks

Old News
2008: Karl L no longer working on RealVideo and NGV
Portable RM/RMVB player
RealVideo 'NGV' Progress Preview
New distributed encoding tool from Dark-Cracker
Helix Fixed-point open source HE-AAC decoder
RealVideo 10 "Winter 2004" update
Update to HE-AAC encoder to include 32 and 48 kbps
RealVideo playback options, incl. subtitles
RealVideo now has its own forum section on Doom9!
RealPlayer 10.5 Beta, with Harmony
RealVideo 10 HFE2
RealPlayer 10 Gold is available for d/l and now rips to AAC in M4A
RealVideo 10 codecProperties explained
RealVideo 10 'Elysian'
The Real 10 Platform
Encode RV9-EHQ with fast 1st pass
2-pass VBR improvements
Undocumented RV9 tweaks
RealAudio 5.1 multi-Channel
RV9 EHQ


Useful threads (previously sticky)

Helix Producer Frontends (GUIs)
Links to and information about the most commonly used GUIs to control the Helix Producer command line encoder.

RealMedia Utilities
All sorts of utilities for handling RealMedia files, for instance analyzers, source filters, muxers, demuxers, and much more.

What about RealVideo 11?
It is being worked on. RealVideo 11 is also known as "NGV", Next Generation Video.

RealVideo Codec Packs
Note that distributing so called RealVideo codec packs, which is nothing but re-distribution of codec DLLs copyrighted by RealNetworks, and a few registry keys, is illegal. This is not unique for RealPlayer DLLs, most proprietary software products have this restriction. Any posts of links to such codec packs will warrant a double strike for breaking of Forum rule #6. To obtain legal and the most recent RealVideo decoders, install the latest RealPlayer. A link to instructions on how to make this well behaved, can be found near the end of this post.

Posting in this thread
The long and windy discussion that used to follow this thread, was split out, and now resides here. If you have any RealVideo (or Producer, or RealAudio) questions, in general it is better to open a new thread. For anything directly related to the information (or lack thereof) in this post, please post here, unless otherwise noted below.

RealVideo Technology
RealVideo 9 and 10 are video codecs developed by RealNetworks, with MMX/SSE2/SSE3 optimizations from Intel, and AltiVec (OS X) optimizations from RealNetworks. RV9 and 10 are bitstream compatible, RV 10 is an encoder side improvement to gain quality by letting the encoder spend more time making wise decisions. RV 10 was called RV9-EHQ during its development and testing, which is what it will be referred to in this forum.

Encoders and decoders are multi-threaded for optimal performance on hyper threaded and multi CPU systems, and run as fast on Linux x86 as on Win32. The codec itself is not open source, although most of the other modules used to produce and play back RealMedia are indeed open source via the Helix Community. Of particular interest are all the pre-filters in Producer, for instance the animation DropDupe pre-filter.

RV9/10 is not based on wavelets, and not on fractals, and does not include inherent pre-filtering. Which technology is its foundation? Since it is not open source and not a standard, I can't say, but it's nothing magic. It was not optimized for low bitrates, but to avoid compression artifacts at any bitrate. Before RV10 some sacrifices were made to speed up encoding, but with the current faster computers, I really recommend changing to RV10 (previously called RV9-EHQ). RV10 is no slower than the highest complexity mode of the other codecs.

Helix Community
https://helixcommunity.org/

Most relevant projects
Helix Binary Downloads : Binary file distribution (Codec Previews, Updates, Fixes, Producer Apps & SDK, Server)
Helix Producer : Main producer category
producerapps : Producer encoder tools built on top of Producer and Producer SDK

Get the source code and build it yourself, all features included. For convenience, fully pre-compiled binary releases are available for OS X, Linux and Win32. In order to get download access you have to agree to the RPSL (or RCSL) license, as well as the binary EULA. Please stop by and chat with us on Helix IRC, or discuss in this thread.

3rd Party Utilities
Helix Producer Frontends (GUIs)
RealMedia Utilities


Recommended encoder settings
RV10 @ High (default) or
RV9/10 @ EHQ 85 (this is equal to above setting)
Rate control:
1) Use new RealVideo 10 'Elysian' curve compression based 2-pass RC to achieve constant quality, high details during action. This also lets to adjust the inloop filter, which is recommended for high bitrates, and has other improvements as well. Recommended even if you want to use the old rate control.
2) The old rate control : 2-pass VBR, Max bitrate 5X average bitrate (this gets you more constant quality), along with 60 second maximum startup latency or MSL (VBR buffer)
Always 10 second key frame interval, in general Neutral Bicubic Resizing in AVISynth or High Quality in producer.

See RealVideo 10 codecProperties for a list of all available encoder options.

Anamorphic encoding
Anamorphic encoding is great for high bitrates.

Supported input formats to producer
Producer's native input format is I420, but it accepts YV12 and most uncompressed YUV formats with minimal color conversions. Also, since Producer reads files via DirectShow in Windows, it can transcode any format you can play back with a DirectShow player. This means you can directly encode .MPG, .WMV, .ASF, .MKV, .D2V, .AC3, .AVI (uncompressed, compressed, XviD, DivX), .AVS (of course), and even .VOB files, as long as you have the DirectShow filters installed such that the files are playable in your DS media player of choice. You can even transcode RM files, if you have the RealMediaSplitter installed.

Input file trouble-shooting
Please note that some DirectShow decoder filters do not expect to be used as anything but playback filters. Specifically, many MPEG-2 dshow filters may result in audio skips, or no video. If an ActiveMovie video window pops up while encoding, and your encode does not contain any video, the renderer is probably set to use the 'overlay mixer' to render video. This can sometimes be changed, for instance in ffdshow. For MPEG-2, Moonlight Elecard's dshow filter has been known to work. However, the safest solution is DVD2AVI-> .d2v/ac3 or wav -> Avisynth(MPEG2Source, AC3Source or WAVSource, AudioDub)

Be careful with auto-loading DirectShow filters, like Morgan Stream Switcher, and VSFilter. They may cause problems for Producer. If you can not encode a file, you can otherwise play in a dshow player, try to unregister any auto-loading filters, like the two mentioned above.

Open the source file in graphedit to see which filters are loaded in the chain, to resolve these problems.

XCD for RV9
See this thread for information on a plugin for RealOne that enables playback of Mode2 CDs.

RealNetworks Info and support
http://www.realnetworks.com/

How to play RealVideo and RealAudio
RealVideo playback options, incl. subtitles.
How to make RealPlayer 10 behave nicely

Questions, feedback?
RealVideo and RealAudio discussions now belong in the "New A/V Formats - Codecs" forum. It had its own forum for a while, but recently traffic has been too slow for a separate forum (due to lack of news and updates)

What am I doing here
I have worked with video codecs since I left school in Norway many years ago, and this is one of the most useful forums I know. I spend a lot of my extra time reading and posting here, and working on resulting RV9 improvements, simply because it is interesting, it provides challenges, and I enjoy it. Discussions are usually polite, and provide useful insight into areas needing work, bug reports, and encoding advice. So please let me know if you have any ideas for future improvements. See this thread for what has resulted from the useful discussions and ideas in this forum.

Thanks to Doom9 and the moderators for the countless hours spent running it all!

Finally, there have been a lot of strong opinions about products made by my company, particularly RealPlayer, and when the RV9 or RA8 codecs get bashed for this, is when I just want to go away. And if there is any doubt, I am not here to sell anyone anything. Encoding and playing back RV9 content is free for everyone. Please see these three links, [1] [2] [3], if you have any doubts.


Disclaimer
RealNetworks does not in any way condone or endorse the use of RealNetworks' technology to encode, reproduce or copy any material or intellectual property you do not have the right to encode, reproduce, or copy.
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Last edited by karl_lillevold; 6th August 2015 at 17:58.
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Old 20th March 2004, 19:16   #2  |  Link
bond
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thanks a lot to karl_lillevold for this great information thread

If you have any suggestions, ideas which points should be added or found any broken links, feel free to post below!

Please don't use this sticky to discuss any RealVideo 9 issues, this thread is meant for info only!
If you have any questions plz search the forum, perhaps they have been answered already and only then start a new thread

thanks,
bond
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Old 7th September 2004, 23:35   #3  |  Link
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To keep this thread as clean as possible, I split it moving all the posts related to new 3rd party utilities to its own thread (3rd party utilities discussion). Please discuss existing or new 3rd party utilities there or in their own thread.
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Old 4th April 2008, 18:25   #4  |  Link
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Dear Doom9 Community

I wanted to let you guys know that I will be most likely be transitioning into another position at RealNetworks, which does not involve working directly on RealVideo or NGV. The project is very exciting, and will most likely make waves when a product is released, but that is all I can say.

To the best of my knowledge, the work on NGV will go on as strong as it has been, but without me on board.

I will be happy to continue to moderate the RealVideo aspect of this board.

Sincerely,
Karl L.

Please no replies to this thread, as we want to keep it as neat as possible. Any replies can to go this thread
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Old 26th January 2012, 14:25   #5  |  Link
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2012/01/26: Intel to Buy Patents and Next Generation Video Codec Software from RealNetworks
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Old 26th January 2012, 16:52   #6  |  Link
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So the official end of Real as Codec implementer Designers ?
Started with Intel technology and in the end giving everything back to them

wow i almost missed that

Quote:
"RealNetworks is pleased Intel has agreed to acquire our next generation video codec software and team," said Nielsen. "Intel has a strong reputation as a technology innovator, and we believe they are well positioned to build on the development work and investment we've made in this area."
Hmm i guess Karl you are transitioning also ?

though you left that boat right before

Quote:
The project is very exciting, and will most likely make waves when a product is released, but that is all I can say.
Quote:
In addition to the sale of the patents and next-generation video codec software, RealNetworks and Intel signed a memorandum of understanding to collaborate on future support and development of the next-generation video codec software and related products.

"We look forward to working with Intel to support the development of the next-generation video codec software and to expanding our relationship into new products and markets," said Nielsen.

RealNetworks does not anticipate that the sale of the approximately 190 patents and 170 patent applications and next generation video codec software will have any material impact on its businesses. RealNetworks businesses include a wide variety of SaaS products and services provided to global carriers, RealPlayer, the Helix streaming media platform, GameHouse online and social games, SuperPass and other media products and services sold both directly to consumers and through partners.
This now becomes even more interesting if you sell out your entire Codec Research (Patents) and Team to Intel

So i guess Product Launch cant take long anymore (for whatever cooked up for the last 4-5 years over @ Reals Labs, also as its part of a major transition especially seeing you survived the crysis got over the RealDVD failure and keeped on on it)
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Old 26th January 2012, 17:39   #7  |  Link
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Yes, when I joined Real, I came from Intel who then provided Real with codecs, and we (Real) continued collaboration with Intel for many years. This time, it's the other way around, but I have not been part of the NGV team and development for a few years myself, and will stay at RealNetworks.
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Old 26th January 2012, 18:25   #8  |  Link
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So i guess soon we gonna have the chance to see NGV under the Intel Brand in action somewhere @ someplace on some device
Also i would say this marks the Day where Intel after the Indeo sellout comes back with a Video Codec actively apart from their involvement in H.264

Though intel keeps low profile about any further thing and relates to Reals Press Release

Quote:
Intel has signed an agreement with RealNetworks to purchase approximately 190 patents and 170 patent applications worldwide, as well as next-generation video codec software, for $120 million. As part of the agreement, Intel will acquire RealNetworks’ foundational streaming media patents, expanding Intel’s diverse and extensive portfolio of intellectual property. The acquisition also enhances our ability to continue to offer richer experiences and innovative solutions to end users across a wide spectrum of devices, including through Ultrabook devices, smartphones and digital media. RealNetworks will retain certain rights to continue using the patents in current and future products.
Well see what actually will come up from that, for now it's only a look we updated our patent portfolio with some major Video ip so take care
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