x264 and high profile: 8x8 intra prediction and spatial transform is here

bond · 5th June 2005, 13:46

in case that someone didnt realise it till now: thanks to akupenguin/pengvado x264 now offers, with revision 251, support for the avc high profile

it seems that with this step, x264 is the first publically available avc encoder that offers high profile encoding (except the reference of course)!

currently it does the following high profile features:
- 8x8 dct spatial transform, which you can enable in x264cli with --8x8dct
- 8x8 intra prediction, which you can enable with --analyse i8x8 (or --analyse all). it also needs 8x8dct enabled

enjoy

berrinam · 5th June 2005, 14:10

Has libavcodec also been updated to handle HP streams now? I seem to remember that the HP encodes from the Ateme beta testing thread were unplayable with libavcodec.

bond · 5th June 2005, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by berrinam

Has libavcodec also been updated to handle HP streams now? I seem to remember that the HP encodes from the Ateme beta testing thread were unplayable with libavcodec.

should be updated too, and i could play the hp samples bobololo posted with libavcodec

Sirber · 5th June 2005, 14:54

When will it be avalible in VFW? Many thanks for the good work

x264 became a pretty strong codec!

Sagittaire · 5th June 2005, 15:16

this --8x8dct option don't work with x264cli

"unknow option" ... ???

bond · 5th June 2005, 15:21

well make sure you get a build that is uptodate (so not sharktooths latest)

Doom9 · 5th June 2005, 16:04

does anybody how the corresponding mencoder options are called? I don't see the update in the CSV documentation yet, and as I'm currently synching the x264 options in mencoder with MeGUI I'd like to include the new options

DeathTheSheep · 5th June 2005, 16:26

Holy CRAP. This is nearly inconcievable to me-- has this thing progressed so quickly as to do such a thing at so early a stage? When exactly did the x264 project begin again?

Sagittaire · 5th June 2005, 16:31

yes ... work only with rev251 ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r251 | pengvado | 2005-06-05 13:07:28 +0200 (Sun, 05 Jun 2005) | 4 lines

SATD-based decision for 8x8 transform in inter-MBs.
Enable 8x8 intra.
CLI options: --8x8dct, --analyse i8x8.

DeathTheSheep · 5th June 2005, 16:35

Isn't it true that in the vfw, you HAVE TO enable the 8x8 in order to enable the others (4x4, etc)?

celtic_druid · 5th June 2005, 16:36

mencoder hasn't been updated as of yet.
http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/cgi-bin/cvs...decs/ve_x264.c
Second it is you can see the options there.

Yong · 5th June 2005, 16:41

ffdshow(latest build) crash when decoding x264 encoded with --8x8dct --analyse i8x8 enable.
moonlight h264 decoder cannot decode it(blank output)...
only the latest CVS mplayer is able to play it back

bond · 5th June 2005, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yong

ffdshow(latest build) crash when decoding x264 encoded with --8x8dct --analyse i8x8 enable.

of course, you have to use a build that uses latest libavcodec (no such build exists till now)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathTheSheep

Isn't it true that in the vfw, you HAVE TO enable the 8x8 in order to enable the others (4x4, etc)?

vfw doesnt offer high profile

IgorC · 5th June 2005, 17:12

Untill now it can be opened by the last Nero decoder.

hpn · 5th June 2005, 17:40

Nice work! Now waiting for both HP enabled vfw and ffdshow to start some real testing. Hope the next x264 builds will gradually start narrowing (or completely obliterating) the quality gap between the Ateme's HP AVC samples posted recenly by Bobololo (this encoder is not yet publicly available however) and my recent x264 encodes at the same bitrate.

easyfab · 5th June 2005, 17:54

Thanks for that
Newbie questions : - how much more quality can we expect with high profile ?
- how much more cpu will be need by this compare to main profile ?
- Will high profile be supported by the futur standalone player ?

bond · 5th June 2005, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyfab

- how much more quality can we expect with high profile ?

depends

Quote:

- how much more cpu will be need by this compare to main profile ?

depends

Quote:

- Will high profile be supported by the futur standalone player ?

hd-dvd and bluray both include hp in their specs

virus · 5th June 2005, 18:35

Looks like the new additions don't work very well yet (as of rev. 251).

Using --subme 5 --ref 3 (2nd pass) x264 uses too much i8x8 blocks, and that lowers PSNR by a few cents compared with a 4x4-only encode.
The 1st pass run with --subme 3 --ref 2 gave a much more normal number of intra 8x8 blocks (just for reference: I got 5% vs 21% i8x8 blocks in the 2 passes). Other people are experiencing the same problems.

Issue worth a look I suppose.

bond · 5th June 2005, 18:51

i got the following values for intra for p-frames when encoding the classic matrix1 clip:

i4x4: 1.6%, i8x8: 44.8%, i16x16: 0.5%

i also used 3 b-frames (pyramid), mref 5, cabac, loop, subme 5 and weightb

easyfab · 5th June 2005, 19:02

Ok I answer myself with a little test a made.

Clip : 1500 frames 1088*608

x264 "main" : x264 --progress --bitrate 800 --subme 5 --ref 2 --filter 0:0 --keyint 250 --min-keyint 25 --direct temporal --sar 1:1 --bframes 2 --weightb --b-pyramid --ipratio 1.40 --pbratio 1.30 --qcomp 0.60 --analyse b8x8,p8x8,p4x4,i4x4 -o ...

x264 "high" : x264 --progress --bitrate 800 --subme 5 --ref 2 --filter 0:0 --keyint 250 --min-keyint 25 --direct temporal --sar 1:1 --bframes 2 --weightb --b-pyramid --ipratio 1.40 --pbratio 1.30 --qcomp 0.60 --8x8dct --analyse all -o ( I hope all is correct)

For information the files size are ~the same (under 1% difference) and decoder is nero (ffdshow doesn't work with HP)

SSIM :

x264 "main" : 60.23

x264 "high" : 59.13

Same but with --bitrate 4000

x264 "main" : 83.52

x264 "high" : 83.67

It seems that new options not improve in all situations for the moment.
Let's wait futur releases for a better conclusion

Thanks to the x264 team

5th June 2005, 13:46	#1 \| Link
bond Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,780	x264 and high profile: 8x8 intra prediction and spatial transform is here in case that someone didnt realise it till now: thanks to akupenguin/pengvado x264 now offers, with revision 251, support for the avc high profile it seems that with this step, x264 is the first publically available avc encoder that offers high profile encoding (except the reference of course)! currently it does the following high profile features: - 8x8 dct spatial transform, which you can enable in x264cli with --8x8dct - 8x8 intra prediction, which you can enable with --analyse i8x8 (or --analyse all). it also needs 8x8dct enabled enjoy __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free Last edited by bond; 5th June 2005 at 15:49.

5th June 2005, 14:54	#4 \| Link
Sirber Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 8,776	When will it be avalible in VFW? Many thanks for the good work x264 became a pretty strong codec! __________________ Detritus Software

5th June 2005, 15:16	#5 \| Link
Sagittaire Testeur de codecs Join Date: May 2003 Location: France Posts: 2,067	this --8x8dct option don't work with x264cli "unknow option" ... ??? __________________ Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9

5th June 2005, 15:21	#6 \| Link
bond Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,780	well make sure you get a build that is uptodate (so not sharktooths latest) __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free

5th June 2005, 16:04	#7 \| Link
Doom9 clueless n00b Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 10,275	does anybody how the corresponding mencoder options are called? I don't see the update in the CSV documentation yet, and as I'm currently synching the x264 options in mencoder with MeGUI I'd like to include the new options __________________ For the web's most comprehensive collection of DVD backup guides go to www.doom9.org

5th June 2005, 14:10	#2 \| Link
berrinam Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,740	Has libavcodec also been updated to handle HP streams now? I seem to remember that the HP encodes from the Ateme beta testing thread were unplayable with libavcodec.

5th June 2005, 16:26	#8 \| Link
DeathTheSheep <The VFW Sheep of Death> Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Deathly pasture of VFW Posts: 1,125	Holy CRAP. This is nearly inconcievable to me-- has this thing progressed so quickly as to do such a thing at so early a stage? When exactly did the x264 project begin again? __________________ New VfW builds. High quality AVC Guide. Check out DeathTheSheep United today!

5th June 2005, 16:31	#9 \| Link
Sagittaire Testeur de codecs Join Date: May 2003 Location: France Posts: 2,067	yes ... work only with rev251 ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r251 \| pengvado \| 2005-06-05 13:07:28 +0200 (Sun, 05 Jun 2005) \| 4 lines SATD-based decision for 8x8 transform in inter-MBs. Enable 8x8 intra. CLI options: --8x8dct, --analyse i8x8. __________________ Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9

5th June 2005, 16:35	#10 \| Link
DeathTheSheep <The VFW Sheep of Death> Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Deathly pasture of VFW Posts: 1,125	Isn't it true that in the vfw, you HAVE TO enable the 8x8 in order to enable the others (4x4, etc)? __________________ New VfW builds. High quality AVC Guide. Check out DeathTheSheep United today!

5th June 2005, 16:36	#11 \| Link
celtic_druid Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,175	mencoder hasn't been updated as of yet. http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/cgi-bin/cvs...decs/ve_x264.c Second it is you can see the options there.

5th June 2005, 16:41	#12 \| Link
Yong d00m9 Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: GMT +8 Posts: 577	ffdshow(latest build) crash when decoding x264 encoded with --8x8dct --analyse i8x8 enable. moonlight h264 decoder cannot decode it(blank output)... only the latest CVS mplayer is able to play it back

5th June 2005, 17:12	#14 \| Link
IgorC Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,037	Untill now it can be opened by the last Nero decoder.

5th June 2005, 17:40	#15 \| Link
hpn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 192	Nice work! Now waiting for both HP enabled vfw and ffdshow to start some real testing. Hope the next x264 builds will gradually start narrowing (or completely obliterating) the quality gap between the Ateme's HP AVC samples posted recenly by Bobololo (this encoder is not yet publicly available however) and my recent x264 encodes at the same bitrate. Last edited by hpn; 14th June 2005 at 06:18.

5th June 2005, 17:54	#16 \| Link
easyfab Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 150	Thanks for that Newbie questions : - how much more quality can we expect with high profile ? - how much more cpu will be need by this compare to main profile ? - Will high profile be supported by the futur standalone player ?

5th June 2005, 18:35	#18 \| Link
virus Senior n00b Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 446	Looks like the new additions don't work very well yet (as of rev. 251). Using --subme 5 --ref 3 (2nd pass) x264 uses too much i8x8 blocks, and that lowers PSNR by a few cents compared with a 4x4-only encode. The 1st pass run with --subme 3 --ref 2 gave a much more normal number of intra 8x8 blocks (just for reference: I got 5% vs 21% i8x8 blocks in the 2 passes). Other people are experiencing the same problems. Issue worth a look I suppose.

5th June 2005, 18:51	#19 \| Link
bond Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 9,780	i got the following values for intra for p-frames when encoding the classic matrix1 clip: i4x4: 1.6%, i8x8: 44.8%, i16x16: 0.5% i also used 3 b-frames (pyramid), mref 5, cabac, loop, subme 5 and weightb __________________ Between the weak and the strong one it is the freedom which oppresses and the law that liberates (Jean Jacques Rousseau) I know, that I know nothing (Socrates) MPEG-4 ASP FAQ \| AVC/H.264 FAQ \| AAC FAQ \| MP4 FAQ \| MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide) Ogg Theora \| Ogg Vorbis use WM9 today and get Micro$oft controlling the A/V market tomorrow for free Last edited by bond; 5th June 2005 at 18:55.

5th June 2005, 19:02	#20 \| Link
easyfab Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 150	Ok I answer myself with a little test a made. Clip : 1500 frames 1088*608 x264 "main" : x264 --progress --bitrate 800 --subme 5 --ref 2 --filter 0:0 --keyint 250 --min-keyint 25 --direct temporal --sar 1:1 --bframes 2 --weightb --b-pyramid --ipratio 1.40 --pbratio 1.30 --qcomp 0.60 --analyse b8x8,p8x8,p4x4,i4x4 -o ... x264 "high" : x264 --progress --bitrate 800 --subme 5 --ref 2 --filter 0:0 --keyint 250 --min-keyint 25 --direct temporal --sar 1:1 --bframes 2 --weightb --b-pyramid --ipratio 1.40 --pbratio 1.30 --qcomp 0.60 --8x8dct --analyse all -o ( I hope all is correct) For information the files size are ~the same (under 1% difference) and decoder is nero (ffdshow doesn't work with HP) SSIM : x264 "main" : 60.23 x264 "high" : 59.13 Same but with --bitrate 4000 x264 "main" : 83.52 x264 "high" : 83.67 It seems that new options not improve in all situations for the moment. Let's wait futur releases for a better conclusion Thanks to the x264 team

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