TV Safe Area

Dreamhacker · 9th February 2005, 12:10

How can I avoid that the TV Safe Area cuts of parts of the movie/menu??!?

EDIT: How large is the TV Safe Area?

Ebobtron · 10th February 2005, 01:51

My editor marks the safe area at 576x384 pixals which is about fifty pixals off the top and bottom and about 75 or so pixals off the sides of NTSC 720 x 480 it works out to about 20% of the screen is off limits about 10% each side.

E-Male · 10th February 2005, 02:16

do you mean the safe title zone or the safe action zone?

Ebobtron · 10th February 2005, 02:56

I mean the area safe from over-scan and edge convergence distortion. Television.

E-Male · 10th February 2005, 13:47

have you googeled for it already
also try the terms i posted
you should find something if no-one here can help

mpucoder · 10th February 2005, 15:39

That area varies, so television engineers use two safe area designations. Inside an area with 5% of the edge removed is called the "action safe" area. Some sets will show all of it, but if some is cut off it's not as important as seeing all the letters in a title. Which is why the area with 10% of the edge removed is called the "title safe" area.

E-Male · 10th February 2005, 15:46

ah, thx for the numbers

mpucoder · 10th February 2005, 15:51

That is 5% and 10% on both sides, top, and bottom - as ebobtron noted.

Dreamhacker · 10th February 2005, 23:21

So I should remove 10% on each side to be sure that everything is shown?
The file I burn is 640x480. The NTSC DVD size is 720x480. I then have to cut something of anyway?

EDIT: How is this done on the "real" DVD's? There is never such problems with those

The Geek · 11th February 2005, 00:28

Quote:

EDIT: How is this done on the "real" DVD's? There is never such problems with those

They simply ignore the safe area. On the PC you see the whole image, on the TV the borders will be cropped.
Because of the widescreen format of movies only the sides will actually be cropped, but if you look at a DVD with 4:3 content (like extras, or TV series), you will see that a little bit gets cropped away.
And that is the same with everything you see on the TV.

I don't know why you are so worried about it. The safe area ain't big anyway, and non-CRT-TVs don't even have one (they show everything).
So, I'd just ignore that.

The Geek

E-Male · 11th February 2005, 00:55

on filming they just take care that not much is happening in that area

mpucoder · 11th February 2005, 01:15

A lot of cameras have the areas marked on the viewfinder.

E-Male · 11th February 2005, 01:40

yep, but movie from the time before TV was invented didn't have that (of cours)
so silent film often are window-boxed on DVD, so you don't loose any information in the overscan

Ebobtron · 11th February 2005, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamhacker
So I should remove 10% on each side to be sure that everything is shown?

I don't think you should remove anything, you need to add or expand.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamhacker
The file I burn is 640x480. The NTSC DVD size is 720x480. I then have to cut something of anyway?

No. You would or your editor would resize the clip to 720x480. If you need to see all of your 640x480 clip then you would need to reduce the size evenly around all four side then add borders then resize to 720x480.
--------------------------
But I can't really tell you what you need to do without alot more info. Such as.
Is your clip interlaced?
Is it DV from a camcorder?
What programs are you using?
What encoder for Mpeg2 or Mpeg1?

Kind of a what are you doing type thing. You are sure to get help.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamhacker
EDIT: How is this done on the "real" DVD's? There is never such problems with those.

The exact same way only you and I and the rest here are hoping to spend a lot less money.

mpucoder · 11th February 2005, 15:48

But if you do anything to remove picture from the overscan area your DVD will look strange on any modern display (lcd, plasma, HDTV, computer screens). It's better to do what everyone else does, use the full screen size.

Dreamhacker · 11th February 2005, 21:01

Hopes this is all the info you need:
- It's a XviD compressed TV episode, cartoon (too lazy to record myself

)
- Yes, it's interlaced I think, as when I play it on my TV it kinda splits up in lines
- The file is 640x480, NTSC, and it's subbed, so I really can't cut that much (at least nothing on the sides)
- I use TMPGEnc and TMPGEnc DVD Author

Settings for TMPGEnc

Video

Streamtype: MPEG-2 Video
Aspect ratio: 4:3 Display
Frame rate: 23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)
Rate control mode: Constant quality (Q: 100, Max bitrate: 3000, Min bitrate: 0, P Picture Spoilage: 0, B Picture Spoilage: 20)
VBV buffer size: 0 (Automatic)
Profile & Level: Main Profile & Main Level (MP@ML)
Video format: NTSC
Encode mode: 3:2 pulldown when playback
YUV Format: 4:2:0
DC component precision: 8 bits
Motion search precision: Normal

Advanced

Video source type: Non-interlace (progressive)
Field order: Bottom field first (field B)
Source aspect ratio: 1:1 (VGA)
Video arrange method: Center (custom size) XXX x XXX (don't know what to set it to)

Quote:

But if you do anything to remove picture from the overscan area your DVD will look strange on any modern display (lcd, plasma, HDTV, computer screens). It's better to do what everyone else does, use the full screen size.

What does the "real" DVD makers do to make it seem right on both modern displays and CRT TV's? :S

The Geek · 11th February 2005, 21:47

Quote:

What does the "real" DVD makers do to make it seem right on both modern displays and CRT TV's? :S

I told you that already. They ignore it. So, a little bit is just not visible on a CRT TV.

The Geek

Ebobtron · 12th February 2005, 03:49

Quote:

- The file is 640x480, NTSC, and it's subbed, so I really can't cut that much (at least nothing on the sides)

You cut nothing, (no cropping) you resize. If the subtitles fill across the screen edge to edge then someone has already hacked the video up.

Quote:

- Yes, it's interlaced I think, as when I play it on my TV it kinda splits up in lines

I'd be interested in how you play this on your TV. Can you read your subtitles then.

Dreamhacker · 12th February 2005, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Ebobtron
You cut nothing, (no cropping) you resize. If the subtitles fill across the screen edge to edge then someone has already hacked the video up.I'd be interested in how you play this on your TV. Can you read your subtitles then.

I can read the subtitles, it don't split up that much...But when something move it seems like not all the lines go right, as like some don't change fast enugh :\

About the resize, wouldn't I lose the 4:3 Aspect ratio then?

E-Male · 12th February 2005, 11:35

not if you resize to the right target resolution

9th February 2005, 12:10	#1 \| Link
Dreamhacker Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 35	TV Safe Area How can I avoid that the TV Safe Area cuts of parts of the movie/menu??!? EDIT: How large is the TV Safe Area? Last edited by Dreamhacker; 9th February 2005 at 17:22.

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10th February 2005, 01:51	#2 \| Link
Ebobtron Errant Knight Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: St Louis, M0 US Posts: 364	My editor marks the safe area at 576x384 pixals which is about fifty pixals off the top and bottom and about 75 or so pixals off the sides of NTSC 720 x 480 it works out to about 20% of the screen is off limits about 10% each side.

10th February 2005, 02:16	#3 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	do you mean the safe title zone or the safe action zone?

10th February 2005, 02:56	#4 \| Link
Ebobtron Errant Knight Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: St Louis, M0 US Posts: 364	I mean the area safe from over-scan and edge convergence distortion. Television.

10th February 2005, 13:47	#5 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	have you googeled for it already also try the terms i posted you should find something if no-one here can help

10th February 2005, 15:39	#6 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,398	That area varies, so television engineers use two safe area designations. Inside an area with 5% of the edge removed is called the "action safe" area. Some sets will show all of it, but if some is cut off it's not as important as seeing all the letters in a title. Which is why the area with 10% of the edge removed is called the "title safe" area.

10th February 2005, 15:46	#7 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	ah, thx for the numbers

10th February 2005, 15:51	#8 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,398	That is 5% and 10% on both sides, top, and bottom - as ebobtron noted.

10th February 2005, 23:21	#9 \| Link
Dreamhacker Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 35	So I should remove 10% on each side to be sure that everything is shown? The file I burn is 640x480. The NTSC DVD size is 720x480. I then have to cut something of anyway? EDIT: How is this done on the "real" DVD's? There is never such problems with those

11th February 2005, 00:55	#11 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	on filming they just take care that not much is happening in that area

11th February 2005, 01:15	#12 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,398	A lot of cameras have the areas marked on the viewfinder.

11th February 2005, 01:40	#13 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	yep, but movie from the time before TV was invented didn't have that (of cours) so silent film often are window-boxed on DVD, so you don't loose any information in the overscan

11th February 2005, 15:48	#15 \| Link
mpucoder Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,398	But if you do anything to remove picture from the overscan area your DVD will look strange on any modern display (lcd, plasma, HDTV, computer screens). It's better to do what everyone else does, use the full screen size.

12th February 2005, 11:35	#20 \| Link
E-Male mad computer-scientist Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,377	not if you resize to the right target resolution