64 bit avisynth?

Blue_MiSfit · 3rd January 2005, 21:56

Hello all,

I am just wondering if there are any plans to release avisynth for the Windows XP x64 edition beta. XviD and VirtualDub both have 64 bit branches now, and AviSynth is the only missing tool

If anyone has any information regarding this please let us all know!

Thanks
~misfit

sh0dan · 4th January 2005, 11:27

MS has decided to ditch the current method of doing inline assembler, so basicly most assembler code has to be redone.

Blue_MiSfit · 5th January 2005, 05:02

ouch.

Richard Berg · 6th January 2005, 03:42

Intel's 64-bit compiler supports it (and has fewer bugs, from talking to several people), but their builds tend to be much slower than MS or GCC on AMD chips.

Cyberia · 6th January 2005, 05:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Berg
Intel's 64-bit compiler supports it (and has fewer bugs, from talking to several people), but their builds tend to be much slower than MS or GCC on AMD chips.

I thought I just read somewhere that the Intel compiler does not detect AMD processors having MMX/SSE/SSE2. It's a sneaky thing to do to make AMD look bad. There was a workaround too to force the optimizations anyway and then AMD performed very well indeed.

d'Oursse · 6th January 2005, 10:05

cyberia: i think that it's here :

http://groups.google.ca/groups?dq=&h...ing.google.com

squid_80 · 6th January 2005, 12:09

Wouldn't the assembly code need to be redone anyway?

708145 · 25th January 2005, 16:12

Quote:

Originally posted by squid_80
Wouldn't the assembly code need to be redone anyway?

not completely, only the parts that would benefit a lot.

and yes: I'm looking forward to both Win64 and Lin64 versions of avisynth!

bis besser,
Tobias

squid_80 · 26th January 2005, 00:52

Quote:

Originally posted by 708145
not completely, only the parts that would benefit a lot.

I mean any assembly code that uses memory addresses has to be redone, the 64-bit extended GPRs (rax, rcx etc.) must be used instead of the 32-bit registers (eax, ecx etc). So even if a compiler did support inline assembly, it would all still probably have to be modified. Not to mention other issues like microsoft saying MMX can't be used, certain instructions not being available in 64-bit mode...

Sharktooth · 26th January 2005, 03:54

that's only an OS issue. the processor itself supports all mmx and x87 instructions in 64bit mode.
btw, you're right a big part of ASM should be rewritten but there are some tools on the AMD website that could help the transition a lot...

squid_80 · 26th January 2005, 11:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Sharktooth
btw, you're right a big part of ASM should be rewritten but there are some tools on the AMD website that could help the transition a lot...

If it's that Convertsse2instrin perl script you're talking about, it sucks. I think they've removed it, and with good cause.

The instructions not available are things like "mov ah, [r8]" and a few undocumented opcodes like salc. Don't know if avisynth uses any of them, most are easy enough to work around anyway.

JRepin · 19th February 2005, 15:53

Hi,

Has there been any progress on making 64-bit version for AMD64 possible? If not, when can ve expect it? Are there any plans for this?

Thanks for answers!

Richard Berg · 21st February 2005, 04:39

If you read the above comments, you'll see we're not optimistic. Actually, if this blog is correct, the situation is even worse:

Quote:

Regarding the (ick) comments about MMX: Don't use MMX on x64 [I don't think the ML64 assembler even supports it!]. I haven't yet seen a single scenario where MMX code runs faster than SSE2 code. The primary reason I've heard that people want to use MMX is because they already have a bunch of x86 ASM code using MMX. I have 1 word for you: rewrite. Chances are, if you don't rewrite it, your asm code will be completely wrong & broken, due to ABI restrictions - you won't discover this until you find yourself staring at a broken stack dump, or a terminated process, due to failed exception handling.

http://blogs.msdn.com/freik/archive/...06/253291.aspx

Honestly, I don't see how porting Avisynth to AMD64 would help, since all the time-sensitive portions are already vectorized. Some of the long script-functions being written by guys like Didee would benefit from large amounts of virtual memory, but not until machines with 2GB+ of RAM are common.

JRepin · 21st February 2005, 09:54

Well you need a 64-bit app to use it from other 64-bit apps. You can't use 32-bit app. And avisynth is currently the only missing link in the 64-bit chain. Oh and some of us alreays have more then 2 GiB of memory

708145 · 21st February 2005, 23:49

Just to brag a bit:
dual opteron 250 with 16GB RAM here!

Eagerly awaiting 64 bit linux avisynth

bis besser,
Tobias

Shinigami-Sama · 3rd March 2005, 08:54

considreing I'm planing on buying an amd64fx mobo next
they would be nice to see
and iirc hte amd64 version of mmx sse1/2/3 ect. are slightly more effiacnt that intels;
but that might be flawed info on my part
but I love to see this come out before I buy hte amd64fx

Richard Berg · 3rd March 2005, 22:44

AMD K8 chips are slightly more efficient at MMX/SSE in that some of the latencies are lower, yes. However, if the instructions are ordered well enough that the P4's decoder can keep up, it's not enough extra efficiency to make up for the P4's clockspeed advantage.

Shinigami-Sama · 4th March 2005, 02:47

AFAIK...
the AMD 64fx has a built-in ram manager as well
so that bumps up tranfer speeds of everything
and I guess I should clearify a bit more
I ment the 64fx;s that are coming out soon or just came out their new err 967 pin one
iirc I read that its latency was 80% lower than intel;s lastest P4
but I read that about a month ago I can;t rembmer hte link so I can't check though

but also
I read somewhere that intel uses two 64bit halves for sse and AMD uses a real 128bit channel
if so would that not make it more efficnat?
because 64bit+64bit=65bit seeing as how every bit you add you double hte infomation
but I might be off due to sleep deprivation though
but I still prefer amd over intel so this would give me a greater incentive to get hte ubernice 64fx when I get hte money

squid_80 · 10th April 2005, 04:08

Sorry to bring up this old thread again, but is anyone doing any work on porting to x64? I've done some basic work, got most of the core stuff ported and just finished an x64 version of dgdecode to go with it, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time doing work that's already been done by someone else.

sh0dan · 10th April 2005, 08:52

To my knowledge there isn't anyone else working on 64bit 2.5 based AviSynth. I'd love to help, but I don't have the platform available (or rather the OS available). Are you using VS .net 2003?

3rd January 2005, 21:56	#1 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	64 bit avisynth? Hello all, I am just wondering if there are any plans to release avisynth for the Windows XP x64 edition beta. XviD and VirtualDub both have 64 bit branches now, and AviSynth is the only missing tool If anyone has any information regarding this please let us all know! Thanks ~misfit __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

4th January 2005, 11:27	#2 \| Link
sh0dan Retired AviSynth Dev ;) Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 3,480	MS has decided to ditch the current method of doing inline assembler, so basicly most assembler code has to be redone. __________________ Regards, sh0dan // VoxPod

5th January 2005, 05:02	#3 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	ouch. __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

26th January 2005, 03:54	#10 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	that's only an OS issue. the processor itself supports all mmx and x87 instructions in 64bit mode. btw, you're right a big part of ASM should be rewritten but there are some tools on the AMD website that could help the transition a lot... __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

19th February 2005, 15:53	#12 \| Link
JRepin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2	Also looking for this Hi, Has there been any progress on making 64-bit version for AMD64 possible? If not, when can ve expect it? Are there any plans for this? Thanks for answers!

6th January 2005, 03:42	#4 \| Link
Richard Berg developer wannabe Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,211	Intel's 64-bit compiler supports it (and has fewer bugs, from talking to several people), but their builds tend to be much slower than MS or GCC on AMD chips.

6th January 2005, 10:05	#6 \| Link
d'Oursse Mushroomeur Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Mushrooms of Paris Town Posts: 267	cyberia: i think that it's here : http://groups.google.ca/groups?dq=&h...ing.google.com

6th January 2005, 12:09	#7 \| Link
squid_80 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne, AU Posts: 1,963	Wouldn't the assembly code need to be redone anyway?

21st February 2005, 09:54	#14 \| Link
JRepin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2	Well you need a 64-bit app to use it from other 64-bit apps. You can't use 32-bit app. And avisynth is currently the only missing link in the 64-bit chain. Oh and some of us alreays have more then 2 GiB of memory

21st February 2005, 23:49	#15 \| Link
708145 Professional Lemming Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 359	Just to brag a bit: dual opteron 250 with 16GB RAM here! Eagerly awaiting 64 bit linux avisynth bis besser, Tobias __________________ projects page: ELDER, SmoothD, etc.

3rd March 2005, 22:44	#17 \| Link
Richard Berg developer wannabe Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,211	AMD K8 chips are slightly more efficient at MMX/SSE in that some of the latencies are lower, yes. However, if the instructions are ordered well enough that the P4's decoder can keep up, it's not enough extra efficiency to make up for the P4's clockspeed advantage.

10th April 2005, 04:08	#19 \| Link
squid_80 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne, AU Posts: 1,963	Sorry to bring up this old thread again, but is anyone doing any work on porting to x64? I've done some basic work, got most of the core stuff ported and just finished an x64 version of dgdecode to go with it, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting time doing work that's already been done by someone else.

10th April 2005, 08:52	#20 \| Link
sh0dan Retired AviSynth Dev ;) Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 3,480	To my knowledge there isn't anyone else working on 64bit 2.5 based AviSynth. I'd love to help, but I don't have the platform available (or rather the OS available). Are you using VS .net 2003? __________________ Regards, sh0dan // VoxPod