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Old 27th December 2004, 21:55   #181  |  Link
Imperial Llama
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I think this new MP3 tab is great.

There is one thing I've noticed with the version of lame_enc.dll that comes with BeSweet (and 3.96.1 from Rarewares too) that I think people should be aware of:

For some reason it sets the minimum bitrate for the -V modes to 128, where as the command line version only does this for -V 2 or lower. This means when you try to use a low quality you often end up with what is effectively a 128kbps CBR file. I don't know whether this behaviour is intentional, but I always use -b 32 with -V modes greater than 2 so you end up with lower VBR bitrates like you get when you use the command line version.
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Old 27th December 2004, 22:26   #182  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
DNR: It works because you were doing a downmix to stereo using -c and -hybridgain. As I wrote above: "It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes." In fact using hybridgain enables DNR automatically even if you keep the 6ch. Do a 5.1 -> 5.1 transcoding with pregain/postgain/no gain at all like in my example. DNR will stay disabled when using "-n". If you don't have Nero, try 6ch vorbis.
Well...ok. I didn't know that.


About cbr Vorbis :
I think you misunderstood "Average bitrate" and "Nominal Bitrate" terms.
  • Nominal means a state of bitrate that the encoder *should* try to keep to. Some audio streams have more or less certain complexity in their structure. That's why the bitrate can fluctuate around this specified value.
  • Average refers here to the bitrate means calculation of the file.
BTW, CBR Vorbis mode under BeSweet or oggenc isn't recommended yet to have the best results. I put it under BeLight because I think about the future..... when this will be completely operational.
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Old 28th December 2004, 00:02   #183  |  Link
m0rtal
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Well, AFAIK, Vorbis do not have any working cbr implementation ATM - this codec was not intended to work in such mode. Why do you want cbr, anyway?
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Old 28th December 2004, 00:50   #184  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
I think you misunderstood "Average bitrate" and "Nominal Bitrate" terms.
I know about the difference. For true VBR nominal bitrate is only a very rough estimation of resulting average bitrate. But ABR mode is designed to keep the variable distribution of bitrate and match the nominal bitrate as closely as possible.
My point is: When encoding true CBR, nominal and average bitrate should be exactly the same. Because if we leave things like bit reservoir out of the equation the encoder assigns the same amount of bits to every frame without considering audio complexity. That's the point of a constant bitrate, isn't it?
And that's why I can't believe (given oggenc and ogginfo report correct numbers) 129,794246 kbit to be cbr. If it were 128.1 or 127.9 maybe because of things like bit reservoir. A deviation of 1.7 kbit however, that's definitely too much.

I think m0rtal is right: Presently there is no way to actually encode cbr with Vorbis, so there's not much use for the option in BeLight at the moment.

Btw: Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things up.
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Old 28th December 2004, 08:04   #185  |  Link
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Brother John
Quote:
if we leave things like bit reservoir out of the equation the encoder assigns the same amount of bits to every frame without considering audio complexity. That's the point of a constant bitrate, isn't it?
yep, exactly

IIRC, Vorbis codec was intentionally written with "VBR" only - to achieve maximum quality, etc... So the implementation of CBR mode is very tough in Vorbis

Quote:
so there's not much use for the option in BeLight at the moment
exactly

Quote:
Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things up
never heard
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Old 28th December 2004, 10:16   #186  |  Link
Kurtnoise
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Quote:
Is there a tool that can show bitrate distribution for ogg vorbis files? That might help to clear things up
oggspot ...


But please, back to the topic right now.

Last edited by Kurtnoise; 28th December 2004 at 11:41.
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Old 28th December 2004, 10:19   #187  |  Link
m0rtal
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yeah, sorry
you know, yesterday I've tried BeLight... no issues so far, even though I'm experienced bug tracker
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Old 28th December 2004, 22:00   #188  |  Link
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well, actually I've catched a few "bugz"...

- when opening BeLight (BL), old filenames are stored in "Input" and "Output", but actually even if those files already exists, BL don't open them. Is it intentional? 'Couse I often encode files with same names, and it's confusing to have filename completed in "Input" field, but not having it opened...
- when overvriting existing file, BL asks questions in French (?!)
- main window is placed in the center of desktop - it's ok, but when opening "Advanced Settings", new window is half-off the screen to the right very annoying
- if "Input" field leaved unchanged since last time program was closed, clicking on "Advanced Settings" shows all fields unhidden - I mean, some are not grayed out (see first issue)

That's all for now

PS: Almost forgot... it's good to have "Priority" function - to run process with desired priority (i.e., low, idle, high, etc...)
Thanks!
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Last edited by m0rtal; 28th December 2004 at 22:02.
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Old 28th December 2004, 22:06   #189  |  Link
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just catch another one...
for some strange reason, BL uses LigH boost istead of selected DSPGuru... wtf?
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Old 28th December 2004, 22:10   #190  |  Link
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aaand another one:
"Output Log file" is always turned ON by default, even if unchecked.
I can redirect output to screen only by checking and unchecking this option
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Old 29th December 2004, 09:46   #191  |  Link
Kurtnoise
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
- when opening BeLight (BL), old filenames are stored in "Input" and "Output", but actually even if those files already exists, BL don't open them. Is it intentional? 'Couse I often encode files with same names, and it's confusing to have filename completed in "Input" field, but not having it opened...
Why would you open the files whereas they are already in the input field ? If your files have all the same name, just click on Start...

Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
- when overvriting existing file, BL asks questions in French (?!)
Not my fault....

Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
- main window is placed in the center of desktop - it's ok, but when opening "Advanced Settings", new window is half-off the screen to the right very annoying
The question is why is it annoying for you ?? I can managed it on the center if you want.

Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
- if "Input" field leaved unchanged since last time program was closed, clicking on "Advanced Settings" shows all fields unhidden - I mean, some are not grayed out (see first issue)
It depends of the input format. For AC3, nothing is grayed but for the others the Azid Settings is disabled.


Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
PS: Almost forgot... it's good to have "Priority" function - to run process with desired priority (i.e., low, idle, high, etc...)
Yes I know...
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Old 29th December 2004, 09:47   #192  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
just catch another one...
for some strange reason, BL uses LigH boost istead of selected DSPGuru... wtf?
huh ?? I tested this morning and all seems to work fine.

Post your log file otherwhise...
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Old 29th December 2004, 09:48   #193  |  Link
Kurtnoise
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
aaand another one:
"Output Log file" is always turned ON by default, even if unchecked.
I can redirect output to screen only by checking and unchecking this option
I corrected this issue last night...
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Old 29th December 2004, 10:05   #194  |  Link
m0rtal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Why would you open the files whereas they are already in the input field ? If your files have all the same name, just click on Start...
...and if I want to adjust some settings? In this case I still have to reopen files - to have correct options hidden/unhidden, checked/unchecked, etc...


Quote:
Not my fault....
then who's? my default language is russian


Quote:
The question is why is it annoying for you ?? I can managed it on the center if you want.
it's annoying because I have to drag it to center every time I open it

Quote:
It depends of the input format. For AC3, nothing is grayed but for the others the Azid Settings is disabled.
yes, I know, but if no file is opened, but filename is completed in the "Input" field, all options are available...
it's really confisung... I'm doing a lot of job on my PC and can forgot - did I've already open file or not... if it's opened, why all options are available, and if not - why I can see it's filename already filled?
You get my point?
No offence meaned
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Old 29th December 2004, 10:07   #195  |  Link
m0rtal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
huh ?? I tested this morning and all seems to work fine.

Post your log file otherwhise...
ok, tonight
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Old 29th December 2004, 10:39   #196  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
...and if I want to adjust some settings? In this case I still have to reopen files - to have correct options hidden/unhidden, checked/unchecked, etc...
ok...I see. I'll try to make this better.


Quote:
Originally posted by m0rtal
yes, I know, but if no file is opened, but filename is completed in the "Input" field, all options are available...
it's really confisung... I'm doing a lot of job on my PC and can forgot - did I've already open file or not... if it's opened, why all options are available, and if not - why I can see it's filename already filled?
You get my point?
No offence meaned
Ok...I'll change it.
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Old 29th December 2004, 10:51   #197  |  Link
m0rtal
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thanks
you are doing very importand job
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Old 2nd January 2005, 18:31   #198  |  Link
Kurtnoise
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Hi guys,

Here is 0.21 beta 3 release.

Changes from the 0.21 beta 2 :

- Updated : CBR mp3 part. It works great now.
- Modified : new Vorbis Q-Mode. Tell me what do you think about that....;-)
- Fixed : lot of stupid & cosmetics bugs reported by my best beta-testers (especially Brother John and Beiji...10x dudes).

Note:
- in this release, Multilanguage has been removed temporary...I'm rewritting this part right now.
@KillingSpree : I think you can start to write the guide now . If you want some help, I'm here.



Feel free to test it...and Happy New Year 2005 !!!
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Old 3rd January 2005, 22:27   #199  |  Link
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Bugs known :
  • Azid Settings disabling doesn't works properly if input files are wav, mp3, vorbis...
  • BSN settings loading doesn't work.

The second issue has been fixed...I'm resolving the first one.
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Old 3rd January 2005, 22:48   #200  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Bugs known
Exactly the two things I found today. Nothing else. I'm looking forward to 0.21 final not just being called but actually feeling and working as a final version. Good job, Kurtnoise13!

The changed Vorbis tab is nice. To make all the encoder tabs look even more consistent maybe intruduce a slider for AC3 and MP2, too?
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