How to make scrolling up .ssa subtitles ?

I've tried to make an .ssa script including scrolling up subtitle lines. I've already read "ass-specs.doc" documentation from VobSub directory and I tried many different options to enable the subtiles scroll up on my screen. One of my ideas was:
[Script Info]
Title: <bez tytu³u>
Original Script: <nieznany>
ScriptType: v4.00

[V4 Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, TertiaryColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, AlphaLevel, Encoding
Style: Style1,Verdana,23,16777215,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,2,30,30,11,0,238

[Events]
Format: Marked, Start, End, Style, Name, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Event: Marked=1,0:00:05.36,0:00:10.84,Style1,NTP,0000,0000,0000,Scroll up;10;10;30,Hello

If someone knows the way to make such subtitles, please post your reply.
Thanks in advance.

[Liisachan]

This is my favorite way

Save this sample as filename.ass (a weird extension...) and test it with TextSub...

[Script Info]
ScriptType: v4.00+
Collisions: Normal
PlayResX: 640
PlayResY: 480
Timer: 100.0000

[V4+ Styles]
Format: Name, Fontname, Fontsize, PrimaryColour, SecondaryColour, OutlineColour, BackColour, Bold, Italic, Underline, StrikeOut, ScaleX, ScaleY, Spacing, Angle, BorderStyle, Outline, Shadow, Alignment, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Encoding
Style: testStyle,Verdana,24,&H4099ffff,&H00000000,&Hc0000000,&H00000000,-1,0,0,0,100,100,0,0.00,1,1,0,8,0,0,0,0

[Events]
Format: Layer, Start, End, Style, Actor, MarginL, MarginR, MarginV, Effect, Text
Dialogue: 0,0:00:02.00,0:00:12.00,testStyle,,0000,0000,0000,,{\move(320,400,320,80)}{\fad(1000,1000)}Foo bar
Dialogue: 0,0:00:04.00,0:00:14.00,testStyle,,0000,0000,0000,,{\move(320,400,320,80)}{\fad(1000,1000)}Baz
Dialogue: 0,0:00:06.00,0:00:16.00,testStyle,,0000,0000,0000,,{\move(320,400,320,80)}{\fad(1000,1000)}Qux quux quuux
Dialogue: 0,0:00:08.00,0:00:18.00,testStyle,,0000,0000,0000,,{\move(320,400,320,80)}{\fad(1000,1000)}Xyzzy

Thank You Liisachan
It really works perfectly now !
I just wonder why I was not able to get this effect useing my script Maybe You could tell me how to learn the way of making such subtitles like in your script. I've got only "ass-specs.doc" documantation and I couldn't find anything more about this subject in my net.

[Sylf]

@mateo4x4
The line you posted originally was grammatically correct. The problem is that the value of "y1" and "y2" (As defined in ASS-SPEC doc as ""Scroll down;y1;y2;delay[;fadeawayheight]") are same (10), and that means you didn't give any space to display your scrilling text. Change your line to, for example

Event: Marked=1,0:00:05.36,0:00:10.84,Style1,NTP,0000,0000,0000,Scroll up;10;400;30,Hello

and it would have shown up on your screen.

As for how to create scripts like Liisachan provided... it's matter of experience with SSA format in general. If you can get ahold of different people's SSA script, and learn what different people are doing to create different effects, it's the best. Otherwise, that ASS-SPEC document actually documents everything a person needs to know about SSA/ASS document, and a loooot of imagination.

[Cyberman]

Originally posted by mateo4x4
I just wonder why I was not able to get this effect useing my script [/B]

I think that´s because SSA doesn´t support scrolling text, while ASS does.
They´re not identical - SSA is "v4.00" while ASS is "v4.00+", ASS has more options too.

[Sylf]

Originally posted by Cyberman
I think that´s because SSA doesn´t support scrolling text, while ASS does.
They´re not identical - SSA is "v4.00" while ASS is "v4.00+", ASS has more options too.

Scroll up was supported in SSA (v4.00). Scroll down was added in ASS. The "fadeawayheight" option in scroll up was also added in ASS. (For scroll down in SSA, you'd tweak the script Liisachan posted)

Thank You Sylf !
Thank You Cyberman !

I think that´s because SSA doesn´t support scrolling text, while ASS does.They´re not identical - SSA is "v4.00" while ASS is "v4.00+", ASS has more options too.

Yes, I've already noticed and I'm still learnig ass-specs documentation. I think I know much more than before
Thank You once again.

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by Sylf
(For scroll down in SSA, you'd tweak the script Liisachan posted)

My method is actually more flexible than the Scroll Effect. Mine can go horizontally or diagonally, not only scrolling up and down, plus fade-in and fade-out can be controlled separately. The Scroll Effect should be enough for most cases tho.
Note1: like Sylf said, my method can work in SSA too. I made it ASS only because I wanted to use separated alpha chans.
Note2: SSA/ASS's Scroll and my method are not very identical. in 'Scroll' the upper half of the letters will be gone when the letter reaches to the 'clip line' (that hss its forte; that is cool too). On the other hand, in my method, the whole letters will fade away, without being cropped.

Note 3: I devised that method for a certain kind of sophisticated karaoke, which you could call always-preloaded-the-next-line. sample

Maybe You could tell me how to learn the way of making such subtitles like in your script.

again, as Sylf mentioned, you need some experience rather than knowledge. If you are familiar with, say, {\move} or {\t} you can contrive a lot of your own effects. This is not something you can learn by reading a book or something...like, just because you know very well about HTML grammar, doesnt mean you can make a cool webpage. But once you get 'feelings', to create a web page is not that hard. Happy subbing

My method is actually more flexible than the Scroll Effect. Mine can go horizontally or diagonally, not only scrolling up and down, plus fade-in and fade-out can be controlled separately.

Exactly - that's a very good method. I've already checked up all the arguments of this ass syntax and it is no problem for me now

Thank You Liisachan for your post in this thread.

[Dvd@Best]

Hi ...nice to see u guys making a effect on subtittle...
here my question is can i display this effect on a final dvd?
for eg create a ssa script and then convert it to sst and import in authoring program...

Regards..

[Sylf]

I don't know much about DVD sub format... but most of the SSA/ASS special effects won't transfer to DVD subs, unless you hard encode the sub.

[unmei]

AFAIK there are control sequences for changing the transparency over time (fade-in/out), but none to change the picture offset over time (move). But i doubt many authoring tools will even allow you to set gimmicks possible with control sequences. But i never used one, it's just you usually don't see these things in DVDs so i guess there are few tools that allow it ...or then it is the decoder that ignores them ><

[Liisachan]

this might be a silly idea but theoretically any sub in any format can move if positioning is possible even as image subs. Let's say we are making something in 30 fps. What if we put 30 subs a sec, each sub has a duration of 1/30 sec and will appear slightly different position than the prev sub?

The idea is basically like this SRT:

1
00:00:01,001 --> 00:00:01,100
Foo Bar as Mr. Who

2
00:00:01,101 --> 00:00:01,200
Foo Bar as Mr. Who
<i> </i>

3
00:00:01,201 --> 00:00:01,300
Foo Bar as Mr. Who
<i> </i>
<i> </i>

4
00:00:01,301 --> 00:00:01,400
Foo Bar as Mr. Who
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>

5
00:00:01,401 --> 00:00:01,500
Foo Bar as Mr. Who
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>

6
00:00:01,501 --> 00:00:01,600
Foo Bar as Mr. Who
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>
<i> </i>

Observe each sub has very short duration.
Again, it's just 'theoretically' -- in reality, sub renderers might pre-buffer subpictures as DirectVobSub does by default, which will probably kill dynamic effects like scrolling.

[unmei]

Yes positioning is possible, there exist control sequences for that. But whether any software supports it is another question.

I thought about you idea as well, but with pictures this is a huge waste of space.
It might kill hardware players first of all i think. They are short on memory and i think the specs only require very limited buffer capacity for subpictures.
Also i don't know how effective dvobsub is ..sure decoding mpeg-spus is relatively cheap and just blitting a picture as well ..but if you do it 30x per second it might still become a CPU issue if you are not willing to give the subtitles a considerable amount of CPU time (because you have a slow CPU or you enabled this and the other killer setting in the video encoding).
On the other hand, if you have a alpha fading, you do the same ..only the picture decoding is not necessary in each step. And as the fading should be possible, your moving could actually be worth a try.

[edit]
Wait, i was digging in my source to confirm that positioning actually exists. It does, but why i edit here is i recalled how the blending works:
Each control sequence has a timestamp!
This means you can move the picture in time as well as you can fade it. Again, by specs ..what apps do is another question.
but you could do something crazy like a blinking zig-zag-moving text that gets stretched or zoomed with a single SPU Color changing should also be possible, but of course only withing the 16 colors of the palette, which is quite limiting..

[Dvd@Best]

i read up some ppls are claming this a silly question...
but if u have a situaiton where u want to put a logo or watermark to ur video ...u have to encode it...and encoding always loose a quality...
So i thaught it would be really good idea to have a scrooling up subtitle...since it does not require any encoding plus it save ur time too...

I am still un clear wheather its possible or not..may be i need ur guys help me a bit more on it..

Regards.

[Liisachan]

Originally posted by Dvd@Best
i read up some ppls are claming this a silly question...

Well, if you mean me, you are misunderstanding
I said my idea might be silly; i didnt say your question was silly. (I am the ohe who is crazy, not you )

your question is only natural; we even discussed it before, in 2003, when Pamel said in Re: VobSub SSA subtitles in matroska:

You should be able to render ASS at 24fps (or whatever framerate) for importing
as VobSub. It would take a lot more space, but it would certainly be possible.

I know very well that softsub has its forte. what you'd like to do is possible, at least theoretically, altho it'd be hackish and might not work in reality.