needing to settle a arguement xvid or svcd

doby · 26th May 2004, 20:24

hi all

i'm having a small arguement with 1 of my m8s about svcd and xvid, say im going to create a svcd and 1 cd xvid version of a dvd movie (the movie will be around 1 1/2 hours long) both using the source material.

if all the encoding in both cases is done correctly which will be of higher quality?

i say the xvid and my m8 says the svcd whos right

which of the 2 formats is closer to dvd quality.

no need to worry about playing back etc just want to know which is the more superior quality?

communist · 26th May 2004, 21:58

1 SVCD wont hold the complete movie AFAIK. So if its about putting the same movie (90min long) in MPEG2 and MPEG4 on ONE (!) CD - the clear winner is MPEG4 (XviD).

RexManning · 26th May 2004, 22:40

Full ack.

And with XviD you can use Ogg Vorbis and save some extra space compared to SVCD's MP2.

doby · 26th May 2004, 23:06

yup i know 1 cd wont take a full svcd movie, i'm talking about comparing 1 cd xvid with 2 cd svcd's.

hoozdapimp · 26th May 2004, 23:44

id say it's about even then.

Asmodian · 26th May 2004, 23:57

So to rephrase your question: Is Xvid usually better quality then MPEG2 at twice the bit rate?

I must say I have never done this comparison but I would be inclined to state that if one is fine with having two CDs then the best option is Xvid on two CDs.

If you are capable of producing both I suggest doing a comparison of a complete movie in both formats. Please update us with your results if you do this.

EDIT: My instinct aggress with hoozdapimp but I think the Xvid might actually be better, I compress a 5Gb DVD to a 1Gb Xvid with very little apparent quality loss (and the difference in bit rate of ~5:1 is much larger then your example of 2:1). Yours might be a different case due to the smaller bit rates involved but low bit rate MPEG2 doesn't look very good, IMHO.

stephanV · 27th May 2004, 00:27

Be careful before comparing anything...

As already said:

Quote:

And with XviD you can use Ogg Vorbis and save some extra space compared to SVCD's MP2.

So what you are actually doing is testing the rigidness of the SVCD-format against the versatility of a MPEG4-stream in a avi/mp4/matroska-container. Keep this in mind when you do decide to do a test.

That you need 2 CDs for SVCD and you are able to put a XviD encode at 1 CD but also could choose for 2, should tell your friend enough IMO.

One plus for SVCD: it will play on almost any DVD-player out there (as long as it not broken

)

Blue_MiSfit · 27th May 2004, 09:24

hands down (unless you requre standalone or have less than a pentium 200 to play) XviD wins. For the following reasons:

1) Mpeg-4 advances (in motion prediction, bframes, gmc, qpel, quantization, etc...) which yield better compression
2) Container/Format flexibility (ogm, mkv, avi, mp4 etc...) and thus multiple audio formats
3) Due to better compresssion, XviD can encode (in this case certainly) a higher resolution than SVCD can. This (hopefully) clean and artifact free video will thus be sharper than SVCD when played back full screen
4) You only need 1 cd for XviD. 2 can yield better than DVD quality if processed well
5) XviD is all open source

The ONLY thing svcd has going for it is the hardware support.
~misfit

stephanV · 27th May 2004, 09:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Blue_MiSfit
4) 2 can yield better than DVD quality if processed well

thats of course not true... you won't go higher in quality than the DVD-source provided

Danzel · 27th May 2004, 10:51

@stephanV
Dont forget that quality is a subjective measure of uh... quality.
And also there are some pretty shocking dvds out there

Danzel.

stephanV · 27th May 2004, 11:32

yes... but will XviD improve the quality of such a DVD? i don't even know if there is such a thing as "DVD-quality". as you say... some DVDs don't look to good to begin with.

but i think this discussion is dealt with in multiple threads, no need to bring it up again...

chilledoutuk · 29th May 2004, 11:58

perhaps he is talking about using xvid with hdtv quality video in which case xvid would be capapble of producing better quality than dvd at a simular bitrate or less.

SeeMoreDigital · 29th May 2004, 13:49

At the end of the day this thread is just another Mpeg2 versus Mpeg4 debate... All of which has been brought up many times before!

Cheers

kilg0r3 · 29th May 2004, 15:25

YEp, i am already bored as hell. Can't believe I read it to the bottom.

26th May 2004, 20:24	#1 \| Link
doby Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21	needing to settle a arguement xvid or svcd hi all i'm having a small arguement with 1 of my m8s about svcd and xvid, say im going to create a svcd and 1 cd xvid version of a dvd movie (the movie will be around 1 1/2 hours long) both using the source material. if all the encoding in both cases is done correctly which will be of higher quality? i say the xvid and my m8 says the svcd whos right which of the 2 formats is closer to dvd quality. no need to worry about playing back etc just want to know which is the more superior quality?

26th May 2004, 23:57	#6 \| Link
Asmodian Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA Posts: 265	So to rephrase your question: Is Xvid usually better quality then MPEG2 at twice the bit rate? I must say I have never done this comparison but I would be inclined to state that if one is fine with having two CDs then the best option is Xvid on two CDs. If you are capable of producing both I suggest doing a comparison of a complete movie in both formats. Please update us with your results if you do this. EDIT: My instinct aggress with hoozdapimp but I think the Xvid might actually be better, I compress a 5Gb DVD to a 1Gb Xvid with very little apparent quality loss (and the difference in bit rate of ~5:1 is much larger then your example of 2:1). Yours might be a different case due to the smaller bit rates involved but low bit rate MPEG2 doesn't look very good, IMHO. Last edited by Asmodian; 27th May 2004 at 00:09.

27th May 2004, 09:24	#8 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit fit 10 in 5 Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 3,422	hands down (unless you requre standalone or have less than a pentium 200 to play) XviD wins. For the following reasons: 1) Mpeg-4 advances (in motion prediction, bframes, gmc, qpel, quantization, etc...) which yield better compression 2) Container/Format flexibility (ogm, mkv, avi, mp4 etc...) and thus multiple audio formats 3) Due to better compresssion, XviD can encode (in this case certainly) a higher resolution than SVCD can. This (hopefully) clean and artifact free video will thus be sharper than SVCD when played back full screen 4) You only need 1 cd for XviD. 2 can yield better than DVD quality if processed well 5) XviD is all open source The ONLY thing svcd has going for it is the hardware support. ~misfit __________________ I require bits. More bits!

27th May 2004, 11:32	#11 \| Link
stephanV gone Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,709	yes... but will XviD improve the quality of such a DVD? i don't even know if there is such a thing as "DVD-quality". as you say... some DVDs don't look to good to begin with. but i think this discussion is dealt with in multiple threads, no need to bring it up again... Last edited by stephanV; 27th May 2004 at 11:57.

29th May 2004, 13:49	#13 \| Link
SeeMoreDigital Life looks better in HDTV Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 10,009	At the end of the day this thread is just another Mpeg2 versus Mpeg4 debate... All of which has been brought up many times before! Cheers __________________ Still confused about anamorphic images? Then look here! \| Main Encoding Interests: Hardware device playback \| My Gear \|

26th May 2004, 21:58	#2 \| Link
communist Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,141	1 SVCD wont hold the complete movie AFAIK. So if its about putting the same movie (90min long) in MPEG2 and MPEG4 on ONE (!) CD - the clear winner is MPEG4 (XviD).

26th May 2004, 22:40	#3 \| Link
RexManning Generalization Officer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Germany, BY Posts: 37	Full ack. And with XviD you can use Ogg Vorbis and save some extra space compared to SVCD's MP2.

26th May 2004, 23:06	#4 \| Link
doby Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 21	yup i know 1 cd wont take a full svcd movie, i'm talking about comparing 1 cd xvid with 2 cd svcd's.

26th May 2004, 23:44	#5 \| Link
hoozdapimp lost in space Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 560	id say it's about even then.

27th May 2004, 10:51	#10 \| Link
Danzel Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 68	@stephanV Dont forget that quality is a subjective measure of uh... quality. And also there are some pretty shocking dvds out there Danzel.

29th May 2004, 11:58	#12 \| Link
chilledoutuk Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 334	perhaps he is talking about using xvid with hdtv quality video in which case xvid would be capapble of producing better quality than dvd at a simular bitrate or less.

29th May 2004, 15:25	#14 \| Link
kilg0r3 ! - User - ! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,081	YEp, i am already bored as hell. Can't believe I read it to the bottom. __________________ Keep your tone warm and your sigs decent!

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