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Old 14th April 2004, 17:18   #1  |  Link
lab-one
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My solution to DVD-RB Video Stuttering Issues

I found it odd that some users are NOT having stuttering issues. In my experience with computers and software, I generally find that if it works one place but not somewhere else...then there is something wrong with the somewhere else. The fact that others were not having the issue also bothered me because I was getting great results except for that one issue.

So, I started looking at my local environment and started to find things that I felt were potentially conflicting. For example, because I have used a lot of different back-up software in the past I found that I had 3 versions of AVISynth installed. This was mostly due to GordainKnot and all of the applications required to do a DVD to AVI back-up. I found more than one version of decomb and more than one version of mpeg2dec3dg.dll also.

First thing I did was uninstall all of the DVD back-up software on my machine. This included all Gknot apps and all DVD-RB apps. The only thing I didn't remove was DVDShrink, because I forgot. Then I went into the registry and cleaned up all leftovers from these apps.

Second, I reinstalled all DVD-RB related apps into a central directory, as suggested in the DVD-RB Installation Instructions. Before, all apps were scattered around my pc.

Third, just for kicks, I disabled Norton AV Auto-Protect when installing and doing the back-ups.

As of lastnight, I was able to back-up 2 of the movies that stuttered prior to my system changes:

Veronica Guerin
Matrix Revolutions

I've seen on the forum that there have been problems with Matrix revolutions. I find it interesting that I have absolutely no problems, never receive buffer errors or any errors at all when I do back-ups with DVD-RB, yet others do when backing-up the same movie. Lastnight, while sleeping, I did a 1:1 back-up of Kill Bill with .36. Woke this morning to a completed job and no errors. I viewed the working directory via windvd and everything looks great. This evening I will burn the disc and see what it looks like on my standalone.

Wrapping this up, this seems to be a solution for ME. I am not suggesting that everyone has a mess of stray .dll's on their systems or that anyone without knowledge of the Windows Registry should go mucking around in it. However, if you do have a lot of different applications that are DVD related that you are not using, it may be worth a shot at cleaning up and reinstalling.

As of now, I am thrilled to death that the stuttering is gone. Everything else looks awesome and coming from DVD to AVI and then DVD to DVD via DVDShrink....I'm blown away by the output from CCE.

@jdobbs, thinks for all of the work on this. Once I get paid again, I'll be sending another donation your way.

Edit: Forgot, the problem where rewinding jumped to a chapter doesn't occur in the 2 back-ups now either.

Last edited by lab-one; 14th April 2004 at 19:49.
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Old 14th April 2004, 18:40   #2  |  Link
Joergen
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The Norton-bashing is one of the classics of computing. I seriously doubt disabling norton would help anything. I too have NAV 2004 installed and running and it doesnt cause any problems for me.
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Old 14th April 2004, 18:42   #3  |  Link
lab-one
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I agree. I never disable my AV. I just happened to look at the icon and think what the hell and disabled it. However, I am going to try another tonight with it enabled just to make sure.
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Old 14th April 2004, 19:13   #4  |  Link
quantum
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First, I think it's very interesting you were able to clear your stuttering problems. That could indicate for jdobbs that it is not an issue with dvdrb.

Second, of the things you mentioned that you did, the most interesting to me is the avisynth reinstallation and the mpeg2dec3dg. Can you give the filesize in bytes of your good version, and do you still have the prior version?

While it would be a lot of work, it would be great if you could figure out how to cause it and stop it repeatedly. For instance, maybe you were really using mpeg2dec3 instead of mpeg2dec3dg or something along those lines.

In any case, good news and a welcome post.
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Old 14th April 2004, 19:17   #5  |  Link
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I (still) think jdobbs should include a CRC check for all the 3rd party stuff to make sure everything is as it should. Or maybe a series of short video clips and an internal test-routine to see if the output is what it should. Like DirecX "did you see a spinning cube.. well, did it stutter, huh, did it???"

Last edited by Joergen; 14th April 2004 at 19:20.
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Old 14th April 2004, 19:27   #6  |  Link
lab-one
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Unfortunately I am at work right now and can't answer your questions until this evening.

However, I did have both mpeg2dec.dll and mpeg2dec3dg.dll installed in the AVISynth plugin directory and found both in other directories related to the GKnot apps.

Also, I did not keep the old versions to use as reference...should have, I suppose.

As far as seeing if I can figure out exactly what the offending app may be, I set a restore point prior to doing anything. I might do a system restore and remove items individually and see what happens. However, that would take a week probably to burn and make changes and burn and make changes perpetually until done. Not sure that I have the time or patience for that...
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Old 14th April 2004, 19:29   #7  |  Link
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@joergen

Quote:
"did you see a spinning cube.. well, did it stutter, huh, did it???"
Haha! Fine idea.
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Old 14th April 2004, 20:37   #8  |  Link
jdobbs
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@lab-one,

Having looked at every line of code more than once in the past few days digging for something that looks like it might be stutter-causing -- and having grayed considerably in the process -- and having absolutely no luck in repeating it... I'm starting to lean in your direction. I haven't given up yet, but I'm running out of rabbit holes to go down.
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Old 14th April 2004, 21:18   #9  |  Link
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Well, I've not had any probs with DVD-RB since the chapter-audio-gap in 0.27, and I've also never installed any tools that use the DVD2AVI, mpeg2dec etc combinations on their own. So it might well be that an unclean system is at fault for some of the problems.

And I only ever choose CCE 2.66, remove DTS (which btw requires you to click on some language twice and then save cause you cant save before that) 3 passes, working path D: and grey layout () in DVD-RB.

Last edited by Joergen; 14th April 2004 at 21:29.
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Old 14th April 2004, 21:20   #10  |  Link
DDogg
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lab-one, great post, but I think that people may think they need to do something other that download the proper mpeg2decdg.dll (see the stickies for link) and enable "Add to avs file" in the RB setup with the proper path to where you put it. No registry entries can then influence it. Did you have that checked? (Just to verify)

What does come to mind is what would happen to those that do not have "Add to avs file" checked and have both mpeg2dec.dll and mpeg2decdg.dll in their plugin directory? No offense, but that it kinda nuts I would think each one is activated by the "mpeg2source" statement in the AVS. Frankly, I don't really understand how it would even work. Maybe Wilbert might know.

Personally, I wonder if much of these problems would go away if DVD-RB would insist the exactly named mpeg2decDG.dll be in a sub directory of dvd-rb and do a crc check like Joergen suggested. It just would not work without the right version - period.
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Old 14th April 2004, 21:26   #11  |  Link
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I did have it checked actually. So, I'm not pointing the blame at mpeg2dec3dg.dll. I just happened to notice that there were multiple instances of the file on my computer. I thought about that too as I cleaned up my mess. I don't know what made the difference. I haven't an explanation. I just know that 2 of the 5 movies that skipped during playback and hung during rw/ff don't now. I am going to keep trying others to see if it's just a fluke or not.

*shrugs*
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Old 15th April 2004, 00:19   #12  |  Link
jdobbs
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I'm seriously thinking about making people install MPEG2DEC3DG.DLL in the DVD-RB directory and it won't run until you do. I may just get rid of the "path" and force the line that points to the one in that directory in every AVS. And the only way you can change it is to edit every AVS. That way I can be sure I'm not chasing snipe as people (and other software packages) start playing around with defaults.
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Old 15th April 2004, 01:29   #13  |  Link
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That's a good idea jdobbs considering your target audience for this program....noobs like me!

Not sure about the copyright issues with that dll, but maybe make it even easier and have the exact version you want people to use in your zipped download.
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Old 15th April 2004, 02:31   #14  |  Link
quantum
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I think before getting overly focused on this issue it would be nice have some confirmation it really is a cause of stuttering. I think I'll try to replace mpeg2dec3dg.dll with an older version and see what happens.
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Old 15th April 2004, 03:05   #15  |  Link
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quantum, I hear what you are saying but jdobbs solution takes care of some other potential housekeeping and support issues. Support is going to get tough if this program takes off like D2S did. Believe me, I've been there. Having hard text logs would be another helpful thing.
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Old 15th April 2004, 03:28   #16  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by quantum
I think before getting overly focused on this issue it would be nice have some confirmation it really is a cause of stuttering. I think I'll try to replace mpeg2dec3dg.dll with an older version and see what happens.
I agree -- but after several days of testing and debugging, I need some hard evidence that it is DVD Rebuilder also... because I simply cannot repeat this, and when lab-one cleaned his environment it went away. I want this fixed too. But if I could also spend the next 2 months trying to find it -- only to see it isn't there. I'd like a little assurance that I'm not spinning my wheels.

I will say that I found and fixed what I believe to be an error in 0.38 that may have an effect. But I think its minor.

If the stuttering is my code, my best guess is that it may be related the audio "drift" someone mentioned a while back. Somewhere in the standards or write-ups I read that standalone players are supposed to use the video clock as the baseline and audio as secondary -- and when there is a mismatch the video takes priority. But when playing back on PCs it is reversed (I'm guessing because they sometimes can't keep up with the video rate). That's the reason you see video skipping so often in cheap PC player codecs.

I'm conjecturing that some of the more sensitive players might be using PC based algorithms and may respond to audio/video inconsistencies by giving priority to the audio -- and causing video stutters. The start of a new cell may be the place to "sync"

But... I haven't been able to find any inconsistencies. I've even run entire side-by-side runs between my output VOBs and the originals and the PTSs match bit for bit (as they should when you have the same number of frames and rffs).
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Old 15th April 2004, 03:47   #17  |  Link
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Never meant to create a debate over mpeg2dec3dg.dll, hence the title of my thread "My solution to DVD-RB Video Stuttering Issues". I have no idea what fixed it. However, at my best guess by looking at the threads, at least 60% of the users are not having the problem.

I just finished watching Kill Bill Volume 1. Again, no stuttering, ff/rw work fine. Seek works fine. Audio is fine.

DVD Decrypter (rip)
DVD-RB .37
ECLCCE 1.8b
CCE 2.50
Image Tool Classic (iso)
DVD Decrypter (burn)

I also noticed that the speed at which CCE now encodes went from an average of 1.6 to 2.3. This was noted with both DVD-RB .36 and .37.

Finaly....Uma has a great ass.
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Old 15th April 2004, 09:41   #18  |  Link
jdobbs
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Quote:
Originally posted by lab-one
Finaly....Uma has a great ass. [/B]
Sometimes a quality encode is very important.
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Old 15th April 2004, 17:40   #19  |  Link
quantum
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I just tried to reproduce the stuttering by replacing mpeg2dec3dg with an older mpeg2dec3 and I had no stutter on my Pioneer standalone. But I believe you needed a bad encode and a particular player to manifest the issue so I may have missed with the player.

In any case, who's left with stuttering? Considering lab-one was able to cure it with, presumably, avisynth cleansing, then it's reasonable to assume the few others who are left might be able to fix it this way as well.

Anyone left with stuttering should follow lab-one's steps in this thread and chime in here with the results. Anything we can do to help jdobbs on this is good for the cause.
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Old 16th April 2004, 09:46   #20  |  Link
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stutter problem is still there...

1. DVD-R Version: 0.38
2. Encoder being used: CCE-SP 2.66
3. Using eclCCE? Y, 1.8b
4. Bug encountered:

Chapter stutter.


I authored (with IfoEdit) a new title using just the first five chapters of Donnie Brasco, PAL, R2, in order to speed up the encoding and burning time. The problem is just perceivable in my standalone player, that is a Medion DVD player. It seems to me that the stutter is reduced respect to earlier releases of DVD-RB, but it is there. No doubts about.

The stutter is present at all chapter changes.
It is a pause of one or two frames.
It seems to me the audio is perfect.

As previously reported, I also noticed that in the display of the player, if you play the title normally, both the chapter number and the time elapsed is correct; if you play backward through the chapter breaks, the chapter number is not updated and the time elapsed shows a value that is affected by the following error (in bold the right value to show):


Chapter nr ... Start ... End ... Time showed in backward play through the previous chapter
........1 ........ 0:00 ... 5:30 ... n.d.
........2 ........ 5:30 ... 12:39 . 10:59 = (5:30 - 0:00) * 2 + 0:00
........3 ........ 12:39 . 14:14 . 19:48 = (12:39 - 5:30) * 2 + 5:30
........4 ........ 14:14 . 17:45 . 15:49 = (14:14 - 12:39) * 2 + 12:39
........5 ........ 17:45 . 23:25 . 21:16 = (17:45 - 14:14) * 2 + 14:14

The encoded frames, showed by CCE, are right for all chapters; the overall quality of the encoding is beautiful, so I do not think it is a problem of bad encoding...

Regarding the environment clean up proposed by lab-one, please note that I have just a single AviSynth installation on my machine, Version 2.54, build: Jan 26 2004 [09:28:02] and regarding mpeg2dec3dg.dll, I had already cleaned up my environment. Actualy just two instances of this dll are present (one in the plugins dir of Avisynth and one in the dir of Dvd2Avi, and they are both the same file); no instances of mpeg2dec3.dll are present.

I did'nt perform a radical removal of antivirus and of all other applications present om my PC, but in a couple of days I will have available a new PC without any software installed, where I will just first set up DVD-RB and test it alone.
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