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Old 20th May 2004, 22:49   #1  |  Link
Red Right Hand
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DVD+R media problem? (errors at end of discs)

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. I've found members of this forum to be very helpful in the past, and I find you all to be an invaluable resource.

I am looking for a reliable 1:1 DVD-video backup solution. As it is, I seem to be wasting as many DVD +/- R's as I am making good use of.

I really like the quality of the recoding done with DVD Shrink (with Deep Analysis) or with Nero Recode (with Advanced Analysis), but I am consistently having the same problem, no matter which of these utilities I am using.

The recoded titles play great, for most of the duration of the disc. As the discs near the end, my set top (Pioneer) DVD player starts to have problems playing the discs. Towards the end of the disc, I first notice a little bit of digital noise/pixelization/video scrambling/stuttering. Over a period of 2-3 minutes from when the player first starts having problems, it invariably freezes up completely, and I have to shut the player off and restart it to even read the disc again.

I guess I'm trying to just get a handle on what exactly is going on here. Does DVDShrink/Nero Recode compress the titles more towards the end, which throws my player off? Or does my player, for some reason, have trouble reading any data written in the last 10% or so of the disc?

What can I do to ensure that the discs I am burning will play all of the way through in my set-top DVD player? Does anyone have any experience troubleshooting this problem? Any suggestions?

Thanks again in advance -- I'm anxiously awaiting any input anyone can give!

Last edited by Red Right Hand; 21st May 2004 at 04:24.
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Old 20th May 2004, 22:55   #2  |  Link
Lagoon
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This is a very common problem.

It is either your player having a hard time with blank medias (even good ones) or more often that not cheap media that is crap.
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Old 20th May 2004, 23:16   #3  |  Link
cable2
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Try reducing the size of the output

This is most likely a media problem as suggested. Might try cleaning the burner and player, a good practice anyway, but if you are stuck with a pile of poor quality media, try setting the output size smaller to avoid using the outer edge where most of the problems occur. Reduce it by a 100mb or so and see if that helps. Good luck.
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Old 21st May 2004, 04:20   #4  |  Link
Red Right Hand
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Thanks for the quick replies, folks. I am at least relieved to learn that this is common.

It's actually quite a relief if it's a media problem. That means I all have to do is find a brand of media that works well with my burner + set-top DVD player combination, and I can hopefully fix the problem.

My burner is a BTC DRW 1004IM (DVDRW IDE 1004). The media I've been using is Verbatim DataLife DVD+R's (1X-4X). Does anyone know of a media brand and type (-R vs. +R) that they've had better luck with, using the whole disc capacity?

My set-top DVD player is a Pioneer DV-250. It has no problem whatsoever reading/recognizing both DVD+R and DVD-R discs -- the problem seems to be when the player nears the end of the disc, when the pixelization, stuttering, and eventual freezing up happens. Is there a specific make/model of set-top DVD player which is known to do better with burned DVD's? Should I look into buying a new DVD player if I'm planning on playing a lot of backups on it?

... Then I did some experimentation and ...

Honestly, the problem does seem to be with the media. I took the same disc that my Pioneer player was having problems with, and put it in my computer drive, and I get some weird corrupt sector errors once I read about 70% through the main title. I don't understand why the integrity of the discs decreases the farther into the disc you go, though. I've never experienced anything like this with CD-R's, but I am relatively new to DVD burning. And it doesn't seem to be just the tiny outer edge that has problems -- more like the last third of the disc.
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Old 21st May 2004, 05:17   #5  |  Link
brashquido
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Hi Red Right Hand,

I have the exact same problem with my Pioneer 355 set top DVD player. Only I'm using Pioneer DVD-RW media with my Pioneer A05 DVD Eriter (yes I like Pioneer).

I have been using the Big 3 up until late last year to make backups, and although the end product was virtually identical to the original, the process was very lengthy and rarely trouble free. I now have a huge backlog of DVD's I wish to put to DVD-R, and was thinking I could use DVD Shrink to quickly wipe out all the DVD's under 6GB as there wouldn't be much compression needed to get them down to size.

I've first tried burning with Nero, and when I got the same artifacts as you've described I thought it may have been Nero as I had had a similar problem when using the big 3. I then tried creating an ISO and burning with DVD Decrypter (which has never failed me) but the issue is still there. I've used this same media, in the same set top player, burnt from the same program (DVD Decrypter) while using the big 3 and never got anything like this.

As the othres have said though, this seems so much like a media problem I find hard to think of what else could be causing it unless the ISO is damaged before being burnt. When I get home tonight I'm going to play the ISO from my hardisk and see if the same problems occur. I'm hoping not, as DVD Shrink looks like a brilliant program for quick backups of smaller movies.
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Old 21st May 2004, 07:30   #6  |  Link
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Well, I have done a little more research. I used DVDInfoPro to determine the exact Manufacturer ID of the Verbatim DVD+R's I was using, and then looked that up here. I was surprised to learn that most people seem to really like Verbatim discs, and the vast majority of people found them to be very reliable. The few that reported problems, though, reported problems with the "outer edge" of the disc, exactly as I have.

A few people mentioned that if they burned at 1x or 2x instead of 4x, the discs played flawlessly. I hadn't even considered the possibility that burn speed could make a difference (I have to keep reminding myself that these are not CD-R's), but I'm burning a disc at 1x right now, just to see. Burning a disc in an hour seems a lot less convenient than burning one in 15 minutes, but if it fixes my problem, I will be happy nonetheless.
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Old 21st May 2004, 07:41   #7  |  Link
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Success!!!

Thanks for suggesting that it was a media problem, guys. It really helped me start looking in the right direction. The disc I burned at 1x worked perfectly, right to the last frame of the last title on the disc. Hopefully this thread will help someone else having similar problems.
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Old 21st May 2004, 08:25   #8  |  Link
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I had the same problem occasionally with Verbatims made in Taiwan whereas the Japan made ones never failed.

$
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Old 21st May 2004, 15:52   #9  |  Link
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FWIW, these Verbatims are indeed made in Taiwan. The media code is MCC.........002.
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Old 22nd May 2004, 11:56   #10  |  Link
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I believed that MCC was Mitshubishi Chemical Corporation (Japanese), and CMC was Taiwanese ?
BTW both works great on my NEC 1300A
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Old 24th May 2004, 21:00   #11  |  Link
atreides93
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Verbatim used to be good, but then they started OEMing from some cheap manufacturer, and their quality has really sunk lately.
The problem with errors near the end of the disc is almost always related to bad media....
Why don't you try Ridata Ritek G04's? I rarely have problems with them and they're really inexpensive now...
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Old 24th May 2004, 21:50   #12  |  Link
sarahjh69
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don't fill the disk
shrink so you have 100meg space at the end
of the dvdr and this problem goes away.
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Old 25th May 2004, 03:28   #13  |  Link
valnar
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If you looked up reports a year ago on Verbatim, they were very good. I have over 40 burns and they are perfect (1x-2x media). The newer ones have a "chance" of being manufactured by CMC, so I no longer buy Verbatim.

My newer Taiyo Yuden media works great. That's good to know, since it's the only brand of CDR I buy too. Now I only have to remember one brand.

You get what you pay for. Stay away from $1 media.

Robert
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Old 26th May 2004, 15:33   #14  |  Link
kurgbe
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The burner makes a great difference

The media is one factor in success. The burner is the other. The german CT magazine regularly tests burners: they use professional equipment to see the rate of errors. Each burner is tested with the same 8 different media. It is amazing to see the difference in error rates for the same media. One burner can produce a nearly error free DVD, another can make a mess of the same DVD media.

There is one burner which always come top in their latest test (CT 10 / May 04): LG GSA-4082B both for DVD-R and DVD+R . One exception : DVD-RW was crappy.

By the way how do we clean a DVD reader or burner ?

Kurgbe
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Old 26th May 2004, 21:31   #15  |  Link
cpurs
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use windex,

just DO NOT SMOKE, i fix many puters and the dudes that smoke, ick, its like a black tar coating inside the puter, and it stinks,

ALSO TRY BURNING AT 2X, 4x gave me lotsa errors, but at 2x, its passible,for cheapo media
********************************
********************************
been looking for good media, found some ritek for 64 per 100 for dvd+r at 4x with the ricoh media code,

USE COUPON d3off

i got some of these labeled maxell,
from office depot at the last sale - with the rich media code

I ALMOST HAD A HEART ATTACK

I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE RESULTS I GOT WITH KPROBE

THE ERROR RATES ARE SOOO LOW , I MEAN SUPER LOW = 70/5

WHEN THE LIMIT IS 280/32 AND I GET 70/5 WITH KPROBE

HEY I GOT TO SHOUT !!!

i am sooo sick of cheap media, i am currently dumping what i got on ebay for 19 bucks per 50,,, just 2 get rid of the krap

so i gotta SHOUT = GET THE RICOH media id code on your media

here is what i found ritek 4x with the ricoh media code =>
$64 per 100
http://www.supermediastore.com/ritdvdvdplus1.html

media code = Media ID: RICOHJPNR01

lets take all the krap dvd media and fill up hundreds of B59's and dump em back on CHINA !!!!!!
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