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Old 21st February 2003, 16:26   #21  |  Link
Sumster
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I have the AVIA test disc as well... I also found with the DIVX I made, leaving the ITU box UNCHECKED results in the appropriate AR when viewed on the computer monitor (using a 4:3 resolution).

I agree that the AR should look correct when using software players, even crappy ones like ATI player and Windows Media Player that don't have AR correction in them.

I have an ATI All-in-Wonder with calibrated TV out (I use overscan, and then set Zoomplayer to resize the window perfectly for my TV). ITU box unchecked still looks the best.

-Sumster
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Old 1st March 2003, 16:19   #22  |  Link
valnar
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I've done more testing with AVIA and now completely stand by original deduction that the AR is correct with the ITU box unchecked, on software DVD players.

As I mentioned previously, if anyone has another test disc, such as Video Essentials, we can insure that the AVIA disc is not "AR" faulty in any way.

-Robert
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Old 1st March 2003, 18:19   #23  |  Link
Loul
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The funny thing would be that avia would have done it not correctly.

I'm looking forward the Video Essentials confirmation though some testing on popular dvds with easy mesurable shapes would be interessant too.
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Old 2nd March 2003, 15:42   #24  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by valnar
I've done more testing with AVIA and now completely stand by original deduction that the AR is correct with the ITU box unchecked, on software DVD players.

As I mentioned previously, if anyone has another test disc, such as Video Essentials, we can insure that the AVIA disc is not "AR" faulty in any way.

-Robert
Well, you're saying the GKnot resized picture with itu unchecked has the same aspect ratio as the dvd played with software players? That leads to nothing, since software players do it incorrectly (simple resize to a display aspect ratio of 4:3 / 16:9, which is the same that GKnot without itu-box does, as you already know)!
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Old 2nd March 2003, 19:40   #25  |  Link
Loul
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Quote:
Chibi Jasmin said
Well, you're saying the GKnot resized picture with itu unchecked has the same aspect ratio as the dvd played with software players?
Come on !
That's not what he is saying.
Did you take a look at the files he provided ?

He is imho refering to the nice perfect circles and squares displayed by the avia test disc that stay circles and squaares without the itu checkbox checked.

Still awaiting somebody with a video essentials test disc or some good old real test on commercial dvds...
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Old 3rd March 2003, 14:35   #26  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loul
Come on !
That's not what he is saying.
Did you take a look at the files he provided ?

He is imho refering to the nice perfect circles and squares displayed by the avia test disc that stay circles and squaares without the itu checkbox checked.

Still awaiting somebody with a video essentials test disc or some good old real test on commercial dvds...
Sorry, valnar and Loul, must've been braindead, when I posted this...of course, he didn't not say that, my apologies...

Seems, we really need some more tests on other dvds to answer the question, which dvds are actually more common: spec-compliant (itu-box checked is right) or simple 4:3/16:9 (itu-box unchecked is right).

But to get a perfect resizing we would have to check on each disc we rip anyway, so maybe it's not that important, which kind of discs is more common.
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Old 4th March 2003, 05:34   #27  |  Link
birdy
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I see many talking and explanations about DVD's and also all resolutions like 720X568 etc, but nothing on what I am looking for!
The problem is that I (except once) could not find
a right size so it could be desplayed at the right size on my tv.
Ofcours with players like "Windows media player" it dose but as
you know it is resized by that player to get the right aspect R
Here is my problem:
I am encoding my personal captured avi's with Gknot and not DVD.
I capture from Digital Satellite Tv @resoluton of 768X576 and My source is PAL.
As you may know GordianKnot detects the file as "Other 768X576" and not pal or ntsc in the input resolution.

For the input aspect Ratio I am not sure if I have to choose "1:1" or
"Pal Non Anamorphic 4:3" !!!? Or other! ?
Also 90% of the movies I have captured have the Black bars on Top and
Bottom, so I have to crop them for about 80 on each "up & Down" side and for some of them about 120 pixel up and down.

I would like to ask you if possible to tell me what is the right aspect
Ratio I should choose in your view and what kind of resizing method to
use that is best for my files.
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Old 4th March 2003, 17:30   #28  |  Link
obiwan71
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Quote:
I am encoding my personal captured avi's with Gknot and not DVD.
I capture from Digital Satellite Tv @resoluton of 768X576 and My source is PAL.
As you may know GordianKnot detects the file as "Other 768X576" and not pal or ntsc in the input resolution.

For the input aspect Ratio I am not sure if I have to choose "1:1" or
"Pal Non Anamorphic 4:3" !!!? Or other! ?
When dealing with your captures, you must choose "1:1" as pixel aspect ratio. In other words, when viewed on PCs, the captures look the way they should, while the picture stored on DVDs is more or less stretched.

About the ITU Standard...

I've made some tests and encoded files to be put on miniDVDs. When I used TMPGEnc, the image I got with the ITU box checked was the perfect size. But I also made some MPEG-2 files using the Adobe MPEG Encoder and I had to uncheck the box to get the initial aspect ratio. This is confusing!
Quote:
when you watch the dvd with your software dvd player (e.g. powerdvd) the frame DOES fill the screen. why? because the programmers accepted a slight AR-error in order to avoid black bars in full screen. the players do it WRONG, but you can't see it because the difference, the AR-error, is too small. you could see the black bars though, so...
I've looked at some DVDs carefully and the software player (WinDVD) does NOT seem to resize the image to fill the screen. It was clear when viewing the full screen version of Gattaca. Yet, I also looked at the DivX I had made and noticed that the aspect ratio was slightly different. I remember having checked the box when encoding that film...
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Old 6th March 2003, 13:26   #29  |  Link
TheWEF
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Quote:
Originally posted by birdy
I am encoding my personal captured avi's with Gknot and not DVD.
I capture from Digital Satellite Tv @resoluton of 768X576 and My source is PAL.
As you may know GordianKnot detects the file as "Other 768X576" and not pal or ntsc in the input resolution.

For the input aspect Ratio I am not sure if I have to choose "1:1" or
"Pal Non Anamorphic 4:3" !!!? Or other! ?
Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan71
When dealing with your captures, you must choose "1:1" as pixel aspect ratio. In other words, when viewed on PCs, the captures look the way they should, while the picture stored on DVDs is more or less stretched.
to enter the correct pixel aspect ratio just press "select" and choose the one matching your capture resolution.
in your case 768/767 is correct (almost 1:1).

wef.
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Old 6th March 2003, 21:36   #30  |  Link
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Quote:
in your case 768/767 is correct (almost 1:1).
I'm confused!

I don't know whether birdy's video source is analog or digital. I've assumed that the "digital" source birdy was referring to was a satellite receiver and not a DVB card.
Maybe I'm wrong... But I didn't think that such a resolution could be used by satellite channels.
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Old 7th March 2003, 22:30   #31  |  Link
birdy
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Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan71
I'm confused!

I don't know whether birdy's video source is analog or digital. I've assumed that the "digital" source birdy was referring to was a satellite receiver and not a DVB card.
Maybe I'm wrong... But I didn't think that such a resolution could be used by satellite channels.

My video source is "Digital" From satellite receiver and not DVB card. I connect the digital receiver out put via Scart cable to my capture card "Composite In" And the capture card is a bt878 Avermedia.
So I use Bt8xx WDM video adquisition Driver and set my capture resolution to 768X576 and do a capture. Also The system is PAL.

Now you maybe right, digital satellite channels don't use such resolution! Most channels I am recording from use 720X576.

But when I capture @768X576 then my file is no longer a 720X576 file! right? So I should use the settings for the resolution I captured!

Also maybe after all its not that good idea to capture at 768X576? !
What would you advise?
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Old 7th March 2003, 23:07   #32  |  Link
obiwan71
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So I was right!
You should assume that your pixels are square. The source pixel aspect ratio is 1.000 and the display aspect ratio 1.333. The aspect ratio of your final video should be 4:3... unless you'd like to crop black bars when encoding a widescreen movie, of course.
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Old 12th March 2003, 00:01   #33  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by obiwan71
So I was right!
no - as i said, almost right...
did you read this thread?

wef.

Last edited by TheWEF; 12th March 2003 at 00:03.
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Old 12th March 2003, 00:27   #34  |  Link
TheWEF
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Quote:
Originally posted by Loul
Well I certainly believe that not all Dvds are mastered exactly according to the specs...I would be curious to know the proportion of commerical released Dvds made according/not according to the specs
i'm guessing here, but:

usually all original analog material is spec compliant (film transfer is always done with the same machines), because analog nature/limitation/transfer-process/... is the "mother" of the specs.

digitally produced material (like menue graphics, test screens,...) might be not.

check out "the big lebowsky" and look for a scene with a screen filling bowling ball, my pal version is itu spec compliant...
(this once was know as the "lebowsky test" )

wef.
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Old 12th March 2003, 14:49   #35  |  Link
Chibi Jasmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheWEF
i'm guessing here, but:

usually all original analog material is spec compliant (film transfer is always done with the same machines), because analog nature/limitation/transfer-process/... is the "mother" of the specs.
Isn't there a resizing involved somewhere to fit the dvd-resolution that might be done off-spec? Just asking, I don't know these machines...
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Old 13th March 2003, 14:19   #36  |  Link
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Quote:
no - as i said, almost right...
did you read this thread?

wef.
TheWEF:
I've read this thread. Though things can be quite complicated at times, this topic is interesting and full of information.
But what about Gordian Knot's "Select Pixel Aspect Ratio" Window? I believed that the "1/1" PAR should be chosen when converting captured video to DivX. At least that's what the great majority of people, if not all, are doing.
By the way, have you read what I had written about the ITU Standard? It seemed to me that the MPEG-2 files encoded with TMPGEnc were ITU- compliant. What do you think about it?
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Old 15th March 2003, 20:43   #37  |  Link
^^-+I4004+-^^
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how does GK change pixelAR?
resize+/-black borders?
or better,how does one change pixelAR?
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Old 17th March 2003, 23:12   #38  |  Link
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lol!
wef how can you claim that
GK has correct (1:1) pixelAR everytime (no matter
of the input par) if you can't answer this question?

also
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46800

ps. should we dare mention par at all?

[if gk resizes 720x576 to 640x480 with some avs resizer
output video has wrong par..(it's still not square PAR)
comparision of original dvd image and 640x480 divx (or xvid)
played back on tv-out should prove it...]

anyway........

/ivo
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Old 19th March 2003, 02:56   #39  |  Link
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For me there is still a doubt here!

As said I use captured 768X576 Pal Avi.
If as sugested I use 1.1 AR then my output file on tv dose not look the same as my original file! My problem is the HIGHT! The hight from the original avi on tv is biger then the one from my AVS created in GKnot!

When I open the file there are 3 Options in Gknot:
1-Pal, 2, NTSC, 3,Other

My 768X576 Pal avi files is recognized as: Other
Then I select 1.1 for the input Aspect ratio
Then I crop and when I play the AVS file on my tv I get few Centimeteres less hight then original file!

I also tried the option: Other for the input Aspect ratio and choose
768X576. But the result is same as 1.1

But when I set the input resolution to PAL instaid of other the width and highte size is grayed out and set to 720X576. But strangly the avs created this way has the same hight size as the original avi when played on tv!!!!

Can someone Clarify this ?
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Old 19th March 2003, 14:17   #40  |  Link
TheWEF
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@^^-+I4004+-^^:

i could answer your question, but i will not. do whatever you want...
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