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Old 13th November 2002, 12:54   #1  |  Link
FuPP
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Problem between Dup and some noise filters ?

I noticed that when I put Dup filter after some noise filter (S3DC or C3D), I get a strange behavior on scene changes : some frames coming from the previous scene are duplicated after the begining of the next scene (a few frames after, maybe only one).

These tests have been made on anime material, using last build of avisynth 2.06

I don't get that puting Dup before these noise filters.

Am I missing anything ?

Cheers

FuPP

Last edited by FuPP; 13th November 2002 at 14:01.
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Old 13th November 2002, 16:18   #2  |  Link
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The noise filters may be smoothing the scene changes so much that Dup detects this as a being the same frames, therefore duplicating information.

Always use Dup on a clean source - you cannot trust a source that has been smoothed.
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Old 13th November 2002, 18:26   #3  |  Link
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That sounds logical to me

I am though going to do some tests using very very light settings with these denoising filters in order to see if I still get the same problem.

Thanks a lot !

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Old 14th November 2002, 12:53   #4  |  Link
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ok! I have done some tests using low settings with both denoising filters and I get the same problem.

Moreover, I get the same problem using Dup + Warpsharp even if Warpsharp is AFTER Dup !

So, I'm afraid there's a real problem, but I don't know from where it comes from ...
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Old 21st November 2002, 17:01   #5  |  Link
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Problems seem to be solved with Dup 1.4 (it seems that I've missed 1.3 )

Thx

Regards,

FuPP
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Old 21st November 2002, 18:42   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by FuPP
Problems seem to be solved with Dup 1.4 (it seems that I've missed 1.3 )
Glad to hear it's fixed. I can fix bugs without even trying.

Version 1.3 just had the crashing fix and was not released. Version 1.4 had the crashing fix and the change in copying behavior.
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Old 22nd November 2002, 09:37   #7  |  Link
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I hope my problems were solved because of the change in copying behavior, if not, it means I'm mad

Thx anyway,

Regards

FuPP.

Last edited by FuPP; 22nd November 2002 at 13:21.
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Old 22nd November 2002, 13:52   #8  |  Link
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Originally posted by FuPP
I hope my problems were solved because of the change in copying behavior, if not, it means I'm mad
Don't get mad, get even.

Seriously, if you still have any problem, post here again and I'll be happy to look into it.
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Old 29th December 2002, 00:37   #9  |  Link
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i just have one question about Dup...

What the point of using copy=false with dup ?

Cause if dup does nothing ( with copy = false ) why to use it

or maybe i'm wrong?

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Old 29th December 2002, 03:34   #10  |  Link
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i just have one question about Dup...

What the point of using copy=false with dup ?
No point. What made you think there is one?
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Old 29th December 2002, 03:54   #11  |  Link
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I asked, cause i couldn't figurate the use of a parameter that
is useless.
For me, non significant information should not be present.
But this is theory.

esby

At least your answer ends my quest ^^
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Old 29th December 2002, 07:08   #12  |  Link
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Actually I lied.

It's useful for analysis of frame differences. There is some information in the 'show' display that is suppressed when copy=true. Refer to the syntax description for details.
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Old 30th December 2002, 00:34   #13  |  Link
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I have just finished a movie encoding, where I had used "dup(threshold=2)" - and I felt quite silly, when I got the result, and re-read the documentation.

Could I suggest replacing "copy" and "show" with a "mode" parameter, which can be set to "copy" or "show". Using the default settings doesn't make much sense. I think mode should default to "copy".
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Old 30th December 2002, 07:16   #14  |  Link
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I think mode should default to "copy".
I'll add that to the "caught napping" list. Quite right. At least I made the great sh0dan feel silly.

I'll make a new release.
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Old 30th December 2002, 21:36   #15  |  Link
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Heh - nice one

But I did also feel silly, when you explained how the field matching worked, when I thought there was a bug. Brilliant though up!

btw, I have made quite a few compression tests using 2.5, compressing full-length movies - and I must say, that your decomb package is an excellent tool. It is very easy to use! Even though I don't understand much about NTSC-telecine, I was able to succesfully inverse telecine and decimate 5 movies without a single problem, using only the "example" parameters.
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Old 31st December 2002, 01:55   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by sh0dan
btw, I have made quite a few compression tests using 2.5, compressing full-length movies - and I must say, that your decomb package is an excellent tool. It is very easy to use! Even though I don't understand much about NTSC-telecine, I was able to succesfully inverse telecine and decimate 5 movies without a single problem, using only the "example" parameters.
Thank you. That's nice to hear, but I'd have to guess you have some nice clean source. The more difficult material usually requires some tweaking of parameters.
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Old 31st December 2002, 22:53   #17  |  Link
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Wait - if you are only able to set "Copy" or "Show" - does that mean I can't use both at the same time?
When I use Dup I set them both to true and just hit "play" in VDub and watch the counter at the top. If I could only do Show or Copy but not both then I'd have to watch the top and figure out which ones are underneath the threshold, which at like 15fps is hard to do. I'd prefer the old behavior of two separate parameters, however setting the copy behavior by default to "true" would be fine by me (although like most of Don's filters this can be manually set in the .DEF file, correct?)
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Old 31st December 2002, 23:01   #18  |  Link
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I was only contemplating making copy=true the default. Yes, it can be set in the defaults file, but for the noobs (you know, like sh0dan ), I think it would be a good idea to have copy=true the default. You'll still be able to have copy and show at the same time.
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Old 1st January 2003, 00:09   #19  |  Link
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In fact, i think another parameter could be usefull.

Actually if i'm not wrong, dup will copy the first frame to the
frame 'to be copied'.
I have seen some anime raw with sh!t on the starting kf...
Sometimes it could be fixed by duplicating (if possible) the next frame to the first.

So maybe adding a new parameter like Last = true,
that will makes all the frames looking like the last instead of the first,
could be useful.

Another idea could be to use the 'best looking frame' but it's another story, since we need to determinate which one it is.

esby

PS : merry xmas to all...
[EDIT] i made a typo there... happy new year in fact [/EDIT]

Last edited by esby; 1st January 2003 at 00:41.
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Old 1st January 2003, 00:25   #20  |  Link
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@esby

Of course, your point is valid. But it is already mentioned in the main Dup() thread. When I get a good release of Decomb out, I'll try to find time to get Dup() so enhanced and released for Avisynth 2.5.
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