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Old 23rd December 2002, 09:19   #41  |  Link
RadicalEd
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I'm still wondering how bobotns got his name changed to dj bobo like that :\
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Old 23rd December 2002, 09:27   #42  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by RadicalEd
whoa, wait a sec, I just re-read the thread and dj bobo = bobotns howd you get your name changed like that?
Maybe he has 2 logins.

Last edited by Guest; 23rd December 2002 at 20:45.
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Old 23rd December 2002, 18:13   #43  |  Link
DJ Bobo
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@ neuron2
It's obvious that there still some "torture" scenes as you call them where the filter will fail.
For example, during my testing, I got some really weird video part, with bad telecining. I can change the settings to whatever I want, I won't ever get it clean. With some settings, the first scene is ok, the second is bad. With some other settings, the first scene is bad, the second is ok. I also noticed that the first frame the clip starts with has a big influence on how the IVTC filter will work later! if I start one frame later or earlier, I got often different results! (not necessarely of course)

But on normally telecined videos, I can swear, despite limited testing, the new settings deliver better output, especially on the old weak point, the scene changes
I'm very proud of those new parameters
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Old 24th December 2002, 01:21   #44  |  Link
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Oh this is just a ridiculous thread. And Outpinged (sp) hit it on the head when he pointed out that the guy who claimed his values were "ultimate" provided no less than 5 different so-called "ultimate" values... each one more "ultimate" than the other (?). And his credibility went down the drain when he started defending the use of BlendFields() over FieldDeinterlace().

Of course there are certain scenes that IVTC 2.2 handled perfectly, where Decomb 4.01 (haven't tried 4.05 yet) failed on. However I think it is the EXCEPTION and not the NORM for IVTC 2.2 to suceed where Decomb 4.01 fails! So please get your toolset up-to-date, and teach yourself all of the various options for Decomb (and try them) before going out in a public forum and blathering nonsense about how you have found 5 different "ultimate" IVTC settings (!) for an IVTC plugin that hasn't been developed in a year or more!
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Old 24th December 2002, 01:24   #45  |  Link
Rhaegar Targaryen
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Quote:
Originally posted by neuron2
Where do I get the Avisynth 2.5 version of IVTC22? I assume it supports YV12.
Hey Don. I don't think there is any YV12 (AVS 2.5) version of IVTC22. As I mentioned above, I don't think it's been developed on in at least a year. I don't even think the sourceforge-based Avisynth 2.0x series had begun when IVTC 2.2 was released.
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Old 25th December 2002, 01:55   #46  |  Link
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@ Targayren
You are also not wished on this thread too
You wanna be constructive, welcome, if not, don't even take a look.
You are the one acting ridiculous here, and I know that thanks god, there is many people that consider my advices, because I'm a serious poster, and want that people here profit from every discovery I make!

I know what I'm talking about, just to let you know, until today I ripped over 100 telecined DVDs, I'm not making jokes here, I provide solutions that work, based on real long experience, and as said before, there is no perfect solution, there is *ALWAYS* room for improvement! and please consider that between one setting and another, there is not one day or two, but weeks or even months!
And if you havn't known, ultimate was never a synonym to perfect, so what's your problem?!

I can not afford to work with parameters that don't work universally, since I rip so much, I want a parameter, that works with closed eyes! and when I find a scene which requires improvement, I post the improvement and don't keep it between my 4 walls, just because people like you will complain about updating so "often"! (although it's not tha~t often!)

BTW, I switched to IVTC because Decomb failed in too many scenes where IVTC succeeded, not the contrary
And I keep trying almost every new version of Decomb, just to find that IVTC is still the best!
And you've got to read my previous posts, to see why I prefer BlendFields() over fielddeinterlace() on bad telecined video (although arden posted a setting that makes exactly the same like blendfields, so it doesn't make much difference then). On normal telecined video, I don't even bother deinterlacing

[EDIT]
I just looked at the old threads, the (44,11,95) was posted by Awatef the 22nd of june. I posted the new settings (70,10,25) just 4 days ago, these are 6 months!

Last edited by DJ Bobo; 25th December 2002 at 02:04.
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Old 25th December 2002, 07:03   #47  |  Link
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I asked you guys to stay impersonal and you are not. Strikes will follow any further occurrences.
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Old 25th December 2002, 09:08   #48  |  Link
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@DJ bobo

Did you get around to testing the new version of decomb with aggressive field matching, and a configurable noise threshold? I suggest you take a look, try the simple aggressive field matching on some of that bad material you have, see how it does

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Last edited by Guest; 25th December 2002 at 09:15.
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Old 25th December 2002, 12:45   #49  |  Link
DJ Bobo
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@ neuron2
Yeah right, now I'll be a victim of a strike just because I defend my position...

I just tried to delete this damn thread, but havn't succeeded for some reason, please delete it, I don't have the nerves to take any more of this and to confront people that don't have any respect for my work.

I'll just keep my discoveries between my 4 walls then, don't need any of this. Want to serve people, and then this, no thanks!
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Old 25th December 2002, 15:57   #50  |  Link
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Hi DJ Bobo-

I'm inclined to agree with you that if there are any strikes to be handed out that RT should get the first one for his personal attack. However, you did come back a little too strongly (twice) after being politely warned by neuron2.

And I think you're going to have some problems convincing the people on this forum (myself included) that deinterlacing the whole thing with BlendFields is the answer for a few interlaced frames that slip by whichever IVTC you use.

But I always welcome your posts (even though I might not always agree, as you know) because they are backed up by many tests and a lot of knowledge. So don't give up on us yet. Besides, it's Christmas day, and I'm sure a full pardon will be offered for all crimes. Merry Christmas DJ Bobo and all others that pass through here.
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Old 25th December 2002, 18:06   #51  |  Link
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@ manono
I'll replay just this time for you. I repeat, blendfields is only for bad telecined material, because almost every frame has interlacing. As said before I don't even bother deinterlacing on normal telecined video, i just use the ivtc command.
To be honest, I'm yet surprised that even you replied on the blendfields matter, although I explained very clearly many times before why & when it has to be used.
Merry christmas to you too
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Old 25th December 2002, 18:55   #52  |  Link
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@DJ bobo

You're taking your side a little TOOOOO strongly, geez Lighten up, everyone is NOT going to see it your way...




Merry Christmas
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Old 25th December 2002, 19:07   #53  |  Link
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[edit] the test was ready yesterday and i dont know if i would do it after several last posts... oh well, hope it will be interesting for some people to check [/edit]


I added one more contestant there, force film with interpolated FD over it. That way you we would see what we get in terms of speed.

4 test samples were used. First was the film content. Second was half-film with "evil" scenechange and half-interlaced. Third was the "non-ivtc-able" one, the stuff you see on NGE, Ranma and other old tape-source dvds. Fourth was the "mouth" clip.

As ivtc22 and FF were leaving interlaced frames slipping on 2 and 3rd clip, i had to use deinterlacer for them. I checked with both blendfields and FD in interpolate mode.

More: I did some tests and it seemed the only difference between ivtc22's 5 settings suggested (for given 4 clips) was the mouth clip working. I have only one of them and I cant tell if those settings are any better or not. All settings worked exactly same for other clips, so 60,11,110 was used. No deinterlacing was required for "film" clip, so it wasnt there. Thus the speeds.

As I value my time YV12 mode was used where possible.


Plain avs performance in YV12 mode was 53.03 fps.

Code:
       decomb4-YV12 | ivtc22 BF | ivtc22 FD | FF FD
Film :   16.88*          15.65*     15.61*     49.16*
60fps:   12.21           13.75      11.54      24.57
crap :   11.83           13.92      11.78      25.87
mouth:   14.50*          14.06*     14.05*     28.59

* means deinterlacer (postprocessing for decomb) was disabled.
It seems the perfomance of Decomb depends on amount of frames that need to be deinterlaced.

Film clip was in 16:9 and it seems cropping gave me some speed. It seems speed of decomb mainly depends on the amount of frames that needed to be postprocessed.

FF FD looked best for clip1 and worst for all others. As actual force film doesnt require any processing power, we can see the speed drop from FD, and it is pretty big. I should note that actual deinterlacing takes quite an amount of cpu time, and the detection is pretty speedy.

Decomb clips looked clearly better in FILM parts, due to lack of deinterlacing. Blendfields was a blurry shit, as expected.

60fps parts all looked bad, except that FF did provide a smoother picture. :/

Also, film clip was processed correctly by all tools. Mouth type clips seem to be able to be processed by ivtc22 well if right settings would be chosen. So there, no one questions ivtc22's ability to match fields. It's the need of deinterlacer for lots of sources.


P.S. I remember testing decomb 1.8 vs ivtc21 and decomb was slower about 2 times back then. Great job on optimising it, DG.

Merry Cristmas to all that kept this thread alive (expecially to bobotns)
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Last edited by OUTPinged_; 25th December 2002 at 19:24.
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Old 26th December 2002, 04:03   #54  |  Link
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@OUTPinged

Now that's the kind of post I like to see.

@DJ Bobo

Regarding your concern about FD, have you tried just setting full=true? This forces every frame to be deinterlaced, but only the combed areas of each frame will be touched. Your on/off problem I expect comes from using full=false and a poor threshold.

To get the equivalent of full=true for Telecide's postprocessing, you can set post=true and threshold=0, or just use the override file to force deinterlacing of all the frames (using a frame range specifier).

The problem with blendfields() is that it affects the entire picture, including noncombed areas.

Last edited by Guest; 26th December 2002 at 14:25.
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Old 26th December 2002, 08:59   #55  |  Link
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Hi-

Yeah, if I have a really nasty anime source like NGE or Lodoss (haven't worked with Ranma), I'll set Threshold=5,Dthreshold=5 and that cleans it up every time. Must be pretty close to Full=True though.
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Old 26th December 2002, 09:58   #56  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by OUTPinged_

Decomb clips looked clearly better in FILM parts, due to lack of deinterlacing. Blendfields was a blurry shit, as expected.
Quote:
Originally posted by Neuron2

Regarding your concern about FD, have you tried just setting full=true? This forces every frame to be deinterlaced, but only the combed areas of each frame will be touched. Your on/off problem I expect comes from using full=false and a poor threshold.
@Neuron2:
What do you think about to add the possibility in FD (and even in the post=true of Telecide) to sharpens (with a strenght parameter) the frame's deinterlaced areas, in order to achieve a uniform focus between the FILM non deinterlaced frames and the deinterlaced ones?

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Old 26th December 2002, 12:50   #57  |  Link
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@ neuron2
This is exactly why I prefer blendfields over fielddeinterlace for bad telecined video like Evangelion. I already explained that, the video is kinda pumping, very clearly to see on subtitles or text, it goes sharp/unsharp the whole time, so I prefer deinterlacing absolutely all and sharpen with unfilter after that.
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Old 26th December 2002, 14:28   #58  |  Link
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@DJ BoBo

You didn't answer my question.
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Old 26th December 2002, 15:23   #59  |  Link
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oh, almost forgot, sorry, yeah of course, I used to use fielddeinterlace(full=true), but it didn't work as I liked (pumping pumping...), so I switched to blendfields.

[EDIT]
I even thought that full=true doesn't work at all, as the results were "identical". I wanted to post that as a bug, but then I saw that nobody was complaining about it, so I thought I'll just search for another method...

Last edited by DJ Bobo; 26th December 2002 at 15:32.
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Old 26th December 2002, 15:41   #60  |  Link
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Can you please make available a test clip (source not processed) that shows this "pumping" effect that you are talking about?
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