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Old 1st December 2017, 07:06   #1  |  Link
x265_Project
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HEVC and the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update

This could be good...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12106...reators-update
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:39   #2  |  Link
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I was just about to post this, and you beat me to it. :P

But why the separate Codec Pack and update? Some speculate on hardware and software decoding reason. But i dont think that is true, the scale of Microsoft Windows and Xbox etc means they will have to paid one way or another.

600M Copies of Windows 10 installed and rising. Slightly less then 30% of total Windows market Share.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:47   #3  |  Link
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But why the separate Codec Pack and update?
The overall interpretation seems to be that they want to decouple codecs from the Windows Builds so they can more flexibly deliver updates or even new codecs.

On the store there is also a MPEG2 Video Extension (for free), following the same pattern.
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Old 1st December 2017, 16:52   #4  |  Link
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What PC manufacturers (OEMs) have often done is to make a codec downloadable, so that the first time you try to use it, your system downloads the necessary codec, and then the OEM will pay the royalty. In this way, they avoid paying royalties on devices where the end-user never needed that codec.
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Old 1st December 2017, 18:41   #5  |  Link
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Back in the day, Windows Media Player updates were how new codecs made it to Windows, but those were the proprietary WMV codecs. Starting with IIRC Vista, MPEG-2 was preinstalled and with Win 7 H.264.

It's odd that they wouldn't include base codecs in the build. Microsoft Update could certainly push out updated codecs, and they have been updated in the various service pack releases as well. And auto-download of newer codecs (like AV1) and updated version of existing codecs doesn't preclude having base codecs installed.

This doesn't make much sense to me as either a logistical or financial decision (Microsoft certainly hits the royalty cap in any case). Maybe the decoder just wasn't technically ready in time? The FCU expands HDR functionality quite a lot.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 08:21   #6  |  Link
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i don't see how this can help the end user at all.
i mean now they have to download the codecs before using them quite annoying.


the HEVC decoder in windows 10 is years old...
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Old 2nd December 2017, 19:41   #7  |  Link
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i don't see how this can help the end user at all.
i mean now they have to download the codecs before using them quite annoying.

the HEVC decoder in windows 10 is years old...
Windows didn't have an HEVC decoder ten years ago; just some test players in a lab somewhere. Do you mean H.264? I know people who were improving Microsoft's H.264 decoder well past 2007. There has long been a pretty big team in Windows that works on this stuff, and they do a ton of fuzz testing so that malformed codecs don't cause playback issues or (especially!) compromise system security.

IIRC, Windows 10 was the first time an actual Windows HEVC software decoder existed, although it got pulled from the GM release.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 00:50   #8  |  Link
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The post you're replying to says the HEVC decoder in [[[Windows 10]]] is years old, not that the decoder in Windows is 10 years old.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 03:40   #9  |  Link
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i don't see how this can help the end user at all.
i mean now they have to download the codecs before using them quite annoying.
Even if a one-time download is required the first time you try to play back HEVC, it would be beneficial if more Windows 10 PCs supported HEVC.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 10:41   #10  |  Link
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Even if a one-time download is required the first time you try to play back HEVC, it would be beneficial if more Windows 10 PCs supported HEVC.
barely beneficial as there is hardly any consumer hevc content is available. Even transferring videos from iphone 8 to pc auto converts it to h264 before transferring i think i read. I think you can disable that though.

As far as i'm aware the only consumer camera that supports h265 recording is the 3yr old discontinued samsung nx1. The only other consumer content would be a small number of pirated rips on torrent sites and 4k streaming services.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 10:45   #11  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Windows didn't have an HEVC decoder ten years ago; just some test players in a lab somewhere. Do you mean H.264? I know people who were improving Microsoft's H.264 decoder well past 2007. There has long been a pretty big team in Windows that works on this stuff, and they do a ton of fuzz testing so that malformed codecs don't cause playback issues or (especially!) compromise system security.

IIRC, Windows 10 was the first time an actual Windows HEVC software decoder existed, although it got pulled from the GM release.
yes windows 10 was the first version with native HEVC support.
like i said it has this decoder for a long time now. windows 10 is from 2015.

so it was pretty much always supported with some very dumb limitations.

speed was good too the 32 bit version was really fast compared to ffmpeg and the 64 bit version was not slow at all.
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Old 4th December 2017, 01:38   #12  |  Link
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barely beneficial as there is hardly any consumer hevc content is available. Even transferring videos from iphone 8 to pc auto converts it to h264 before transferring i think i read. I think you can disable that though.

As far as i'm aware the only consumer camera that supports h265 recording is the 3yr old discontinued samsung nx1. The only other consumer content would be a small number of pirated rips on torrent sites and 4k streaming services.
The iPhone 7, 8 and 10 record HEVC photos and video. If you connect your phone to a PC, it mounts just like a flash memory drive, and you can transfer files directly. Many Android phones should be capable of recording HEVC video (they have a hardware encoder embedded in the System on a Chip (SOC)).

The GoPro Hero 6 records HEVC. Many security cameras record HEVC. I would expect many future cameras to support HEVC as the performance and efficiency of real-time embedded HEVC hardware encoders improves.
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Old 4th December 2017, 08:49   #13  |  Link
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Is this anything to do with the Windows N Media Feature Pack required to run H.264/AVC inside browsers running Windows N editions?

Also, does anyone know what the likelihood of Apple beginning to use HEVC for trailers, especially 4K? At this point with Apple now throwing their weight behind HEVC and 4K/HDR, it seems strange that this has skipped their attention.

Do MCW have any plans to offer a more versatile HEVC hardware encoder based on their x265 work?

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Old 4th December 2017, 11:12   #14  |  Link
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all new GPU have realtime HEVC encoder. i don't want to talk about the qualitly and the missing B frames (overrated).
and this is the HEVC subforum and it is not like we can't do our own x265 encodes.
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Old 4th December 2017, 15:45   #15  |  Link
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Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
Windows didn't have an HEVC decoder ten years ago; just some test players in a lab somewhere. Do you mean H.264? I know people who were improving Microsoft's H.264 decoder well past 2007. There has long been a pretty big team in Windows that works on this stuff, and they do a ton of fuzz testing so that malformed codecs don't cause playback issues or (especially!) compromise system security.

IIRC, Windows 10 was the first time an actual Windows HEVC software decoder existed, although it got pulled from the GM release.
LOL, that was how I read it as well the first and it didn't make sense. But he actually said : Decoder in "Windows 10" is years old. Not "10 years" old.
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Old 4th December 2017, 15:48   #16  |  Link
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yes windows 10 was the first version with native HEVC support.
like i said it has this decoder for a long time now. windows 10 is from 2015.

so it was pretty much always supported with some very dumb limitations.

speed was good too the 32 bit version was really fast compared to ffmpeg and the 64 bit version was not slow at all.
Like @benwaggoner has said, it was pulled from the final release. So this is actually the first time HEVC is freely available on Windows 10.
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Old 4th December 2017, 16:04   #17  |  Link
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What we need is a Dolby Vision update so we can at least send the material to the TV and let it do the work.
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Old 4th December 2017, 16:09   #18  |  Link
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What we need is a Dolby Vision update so we can at least send the material to the TV and let it do the work.
Please just stop spamming this into every thread.
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Old 4th December 2017, 23:20   #19  |  Link
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Like @benwaggoner has said, it was pulled from the final release. So this is actually the first time HEVC is freely available on Windows 10.

which makes it even more strange to me i tested it on a lot of versions. was it really the release date? i mean that's quite sometime ago.
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Old 5th December 2017, 14:15   #20  |  Link
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Maybe my question will be stupid but does the extension work for you? Maybe it requires some specific GPUs or encoding profiles? I am asking because it does not work for me at all, simply black screen (all the clips encoded with Handbrake, default settings). Maybe it requires something newer than my old i5-4200U? Other programs (Daum PotPlayer, Soda Player), however, play HEVC files with flying colors.
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