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Old 22nd July 2018, 05:59   #1  |  Link
Sparktank
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? What are kids using to capture gameply (PC) ?

Windows 10 Pro, x64.
PC games (Steam/GOG) to PC capture.
Same HDD drive, for now.

I'm interested in lossless capture.

OBS does UTV. In manner of speaking, but I think only limited to 420 conversions.

As I understand it, I should probably capture in either RBG or YUV444.
And if I can do high bit-depth, that'd be even better!

I JUST learned about NVidia doing 4x DSR (3840x2160) and scale it to 1080p (my native resolution).
Which does improve older games by A LOT!

Screenshots are easy with MSI Afterburner/RivaTuner Statistics Server. 4K PNG screens. Boom.
But for action scenes, I don't have time to take screenshots.
So screencapture would be better.
Lossless is great. High bit-depth would be better.

I tried OSB Project, but it's all limited to 8bit/YUV/RGB only.
UtVideo is supported.
And some FFMPEG varients.
But it all seems customized to only 8bit only.

I have just a single HDD. I'm getting an SSD soon to re-arrange the whole system.
The OS and game will be on the SSD. Then I can capture to HDD or maybe even the SSD then edit to the HDD.
I don't plan to capture over 20 minutes of gameplay.
The games I play, I'm aware of the upcoming actions that I would want to capture. So I can time it to keep it to a minimum.


Any gamers here that recommend a program that captures lossless/high-bit-depth?
Or is 8bits good enough?

Some of the much older games can be tweaked with ReShade.
ObsScure is one of the games I *can* play in 4K on 1080p (NVidia 4K DSR) without lag to screenshot / capture (8bit).
I can have a few shaders active. Any more than about 3 or 4 and it drops to 30fps instead of 60fps.
Although, I could probably live with just 30fps and get the same results.

I tried games that use D3D11+, like Final Fantasy X, which uses Direct3D 11.4, but that killed my whole system running with Nvidia DSR 4.0x...
Even on lowest graphic settings it only gave me 30fps.
I have no idea what the PS2 gave for that game.
I never really delved into that world for emulating PS2 games on PC.

Should I care about matching my monitor rate?
Or is 30 more than good enough for older games?

D3D10+ (although.... only D3D11-OpenGL is all I get if it's not D3D9) never really helps much with Nvidia DSR.

I generally only look at the much older games in my Steam library.

Tron 2.0, Tron (something by Disney...; all using D3D9), all let me play in DSR 4K.
Newer games like Final Fantasy X Remaster (using D3D11+), don't let me play in Nvidia 4k DSR
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Old 25th July 2018, 15:31   #2  |  Link
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high-bit-depth: but how? Normally with D3D9 only 8-bit backbuffer is possible (D3DFMT_X8R8G8B8).
Does exist some driver hack to force different backbuffer? That could create many issues IMO.
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Old 25th July 2018, 19:50   #3  |  Link
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Maybe that's why I get black screens when I try to use MSI to capture in high bit depth lossless.
I'm not really sure how these capture programs work for games.

The high bit depth would be to deband in high bit depth.
I wanted the most fidelity for filtering later in avs.

But if it hooks into D3D9/8bit, then I guess I can just capture in 8bit then convert to 16 for filtering.

For OBS, the website, manual, et all don't make much sense for codec settings in the advanced section.
The devs don't really want to explain anything either.
OBS is largely a "it works for me" audience.
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Old 30th July 2018, 15:13   #4  |  Link
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Unless you're playing a new HDR game, then the game itself is most definitely rendering the final result onto a 8-bit RGB surface, so capturing anything but that would not make much sense.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 09:23   #5  |  Link
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i already used OBS to lossless record some stuff but... you can only do that with an SSD an HDD will not be fast enough for a lot of resolution and fps combinations.

the OBS forum is well... has a limited view at things...
back when they added quicksync support i had a discussion about the instability of it which turns into a don't use it is garbage talk to a point where the devs have to ask there community to "shut up" because they where interested in fixing it...

every other question i ask years later resulted in answer from people that clearly have no clue what the difference between YCbCr and RGB is but what ever.

nvidia cards have a lossless mode but i'm not sure if obs has access to it. i used x264 in lossless mode.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 16:44   #6  |  Link
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Is this the place to talk bad about OBS?

For the only purpose of recording I found OBS Classic to work better than the updated branch. The problem of h264 QSV is that it's less efficient than the software encoder and it requires a lot of bitrate to provide acceptable results, in addition to being subsampled.

Among recorders that support non-subsampled formats, I would remark FRAPS, Camtasia Studio and Dxtory.

On my computer, FRAPS is able to capture games with little CPU impact, but it hasn't been updated for 5 years. It offers YUV and RGB lossless modes, but the RGB one has worse performance.

Camtasia Studio comes with a great capture codec but it's designed for recording the desktop and not games. Thus, it doesn't allow capturing fullscreen games and even with windowed ones its performance will drop compared to desktop recording. Nevertheless, I believe it's the best avaiable tool for recording the desktop. It will let you capture directly to an AVI file which can be opened by other media players (even VirtualDub or AviSynth), in spite of using its own propietary codec, which offers a much better compression than other lossless codecs.

Finally, I have found Dxtory to be a fairly updated tool and pretty much designed for recording games. Similar to FRAPS in this sense, but with plenty more options. It has performed flawlessly on my machine. I believe Lagarith works better than the codec this program comes with, but you can ask the program to use any other installed codec (in fact, it's compatible with both 32-bit and 64-bit video codecs). The actual problem with this application is its expensive license.

I have tried other tools such as Captura, Bandicam, VirtualDub or FFMpeg CLI, but they didn't support recording at 60fps or had no advantage over the ones I described.

Regarding the issue of HDD efficiency, I would suggest to capture to an external USB HDD drive instead of using a SSD. From what I heard, such an exhaustive writing task can shorten the life of an SSD drive. If the external HDD drive is being only accessed to store the capture, it will offer good performance.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 21:13   #7  |  Link
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I've finally gotten myself an SSD for this computer.
The prices aren't bad for SSD's and it would take a lot to kill them these days.

With SMART monitoring, I can prepare to backup things and move to a new drive.

But, thanks for all the input.

With the new SSD and all this info, I'll be trying out things again.
I'll do the trial for Dxtory and possibly buy it if I like it enough.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 21:36   #8  |  Link
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I know nothing at all about this game cap stuff, but was under the impression that Windows 10 has some kind of XBOX capture stuff installed
(in fact I tried to uninstall it but it will not let you), have you investigated this at all Sparky, is it limited to XBOX ?
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Old 3rd August 2018, 23:06   #9  |  Link
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Windows 10 does allow game capture, along with any microphone chatter if permitted.

But i think the reviews were that it's good for quick captures and uploading to share with friends.
The quality is decent for most.

I think with the biggest appeal would be for youtubers/twitchers for fast experiences.
There's little control over quality besides some presets.
I don't think they have a lossless option for editing.
Screenshots can be lossless I think.

From experience, playing games like Subnautica have options in-game to "dither" the image which reduces banding and "lense dirt" to help aid in reducing banding.
But, their dither is just a single pattern and shows up badly on other textures that aren't the skies or distance waters.
Lense dirt (or more like lense flare) is pretty decent.
For capturing gameplay like that, I'd rather not enable the in-game dither and just deband it later in avs.
The banding can get extreme in Subnautica.

Using Windows 10 DVR is something I'll look at to benchmark all these options.
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Old 4th August 2018, 00:42   #10  |  Link
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Thanx for your answer Sparky
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Old 4th August 2018, 01:32   #11  |  Link
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Oh, I forgot to mention two tools that I couldn't evaluate because they won't work with my graphics card: MSI Afterburner and nVidia Shadowplay. They sound like responsible recorders.

My processor is an i3-3110M with integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 -- so I was asuming that if something works well for me, it will work even better for you.
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Old 4th August 2018, 01:54   #12  |  Link
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I read on videohelp that MSI AB isn't fully recording every frame.
Raffriff talked about it:
Quote:
Last time I checked, Afterburner did not sync to the GPU's framerate, it simply captured every x milliseconds.
It's catching the video "between frames." Try a different capture tool.

I would suggest Fraps or OBS, both known to work. (ePSXe + OBS how-to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU26n_ZD7Kw)
Dxtory or Action might work as well, but Shadowplay probably won't, for the same reason as Afterburner (unless it's been fixed recently)
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...apture-problem

I like using it for screenshots.
When you enable NVidia's DSR and run MSIAB/RSST, you can capture the screen at upscaled 4K before it gets downscaled to the monitor in native resolution.
Which makes very nice wallpapers.

Shadowplay, I'm not keen on checking yet.

I know for NVidia, there's new Ansel that's meant to help you take screenshots in certain games on certain cards. I think my GT 640 just made it for one game but I dind't want to hit the buttons to try it.
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Old 4th August 2018, 13:04   #13  |  Link
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what's wrong alt print? not sure why you need a program to make a screen.

never talked about shadowplay which is clearly not lossless.
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Old 4th August 2018, 22:58   #14  |  Link
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For NVidia DSR, I want to take screens at the scaled 4K resolution before it scales back down to 1080p.
Windows won't capture at that but MSI will.
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Old 5th August 2018, 08:22   #15  |  Link
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why should it not catch this windows really runs at that resolution.

you can even run the whole system at the DSR resolution with that i mean the desktop.

DSR is just lying to the OS about a resolution that all the OS treates this as the real resolution and will catch screenshoots at that resolution too.
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Old 5th September 2018, 17:30   #16  |  Link
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I hear that all the cool kids are smoking FRAPS these days.
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