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Old 13th June 2017, 07:37   #1  |  Link
hbenthow
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Severity of BD Rebuilder problem from program installing new LAV version?

I previously had installed BD Rebuilder according to the instructions found at this link.

However, I recently ran into a snag. I installed the program Zoom Player Max, which unfortunately automatically installed a new version of LAV Filters (0.69, to be exact) as part of its installation process. As anyone who has read the instructions on how to install BD Rebuilder knows, this can cause BD Rebuilder to output out-of-sync audio.

Clearly, I must remedy this issue. The problem is that I need to know just how severe and deep-rooted the problem now is. Would it suffice to merely uninstall the new version of LAV Filters through Control Panel, then reinstall the recommended version (0.65)? Or has the new version of LAV made other hidden changes to my system to such a severe extent that I will need to revert to the last system image backup that I made (from before installing Zoom Player) in order to solve this issue?

Last edited by hbenthow; 13th June 2017 at 07:43.
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Old 13th June 2017, 13:19   #2  |  Link
ggtop
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Uninstall and reinstalling the recommended version should do it. Afterwards run BDRB in admin mode one time, so that BDRB has the authorization to make its specific settings in the registry.
My personal recommendation is using a different frame-server such as DGDecNV or DGDecIM and not rely on DirectShow.
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Last edited by ggtop; 13th June 2017 at 13:24.
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Old 13th June 2017, 17:02   #3  |  Link
hbenthow
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Originally Posted by ggtop View Post
My personal recommendation is using a different frame-server such as DGDecNV or DGDecIM and not rely on DirectShow.
How would I go about doing that? Is this recommendation specifically because of the LAV incident, or just general advice? And what difference in particular would it make?

Last edited by hbenthow; 13th June 2017 at 17:25.
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Old 13th June 2017, 17:53   #4  |  Link
DrinkLyeAndDie
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See if there is a separate uninstall to remove the Zoom Player codec pack under Programs and Features. There might be but my memory is fuzzy on that. I definitely know that from within Zoom Player's Install Center you can add/remove/update codecs and such.

FWIW, I happen to use Zoom Player from time to time and I always uncheck the Run the Install Center and Install Codec Pack options during install. Never had any issues this way.
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Old 13th June 2017, 18:09   #5  |  Link
hbenthow
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Originally Posted by DrinkLyeAndDie View Post
See if there is a separate uninstall to remove the Zoom Player codec pack under Programs and Features. There might be but my memory is fuzzy on that. I definitely know that from within Zoom Player's Install Center you can add/remove/update codecs and such.
It only has options to uninstall Zoom Player itself, and each codec individually. There's no option to remove the codec pack.

The codecs that it installed are LAV Filters 0.69, MadVR, DirectVobSub, DCoder Image Source, Bass Audio Decoder, and 3DYD Youtube Source.

What should I do at this point?

Last edited by hbenthow; 13th June 2017 at 18:18.
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Old 13th June 2017, 18:23   #6  |  Link
videoh
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Uninstall all the codecs and then Zoom Player itself. Then re-install BDRB. You're making this way too hard.
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Old 13th June 2017, 18:26   #7  |  Link
hbenthow
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Uninstall all the codecs and then Zoom Player itself. Then re-install BDRB. You're making this way too hard.
If I were to do all of that, I might as well just go back to the last system image backup that I made. It would be easier and achieve the same result with no risk of leaving any negative changes behind.

Also, it happens that the version of Zoom Player that I installed was part of a temporary giveaway deal that expired last night (meaning that if I uninstall it and reinstall it, it won't be registered).

Last edited by hbenthow; 13th June 2017 at 18:42.
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Old 13th June 2017, 19:07   #8  |  Link
videoh
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Originally Posted by hbenthow View Post
If I were to do all of that, I might as well just go back to the last system image backup that I made.
Nonsense. You would revert the entire system that way.

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It would be easier and achieve the same result with no risk of leaving any negative changes behind.
If you think so, then go for it.

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Also, it happens that the version of Zoom Player that I installed was part of a temporary giveaway deal that expired last night (meaning that if I uninstall it and reinstall it, it won't be registered).
Then do what others have already suggested. Just delete the codec (LAV) that is causing problems and then reinstall BDRB's LAV. Take a system backup first if you are paranoid. Stop agonizing and start acting!

Last edited by videoh; 13th June 2017 at 19:11.
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Old 13th June 2017, 19:17   #9  |  Link
hbenthow
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Nonsense. You would revert the entire system that way.
I know. That's what I usually do whenever I think there's any risk that installing a program messed something up on my system. Reverting to a backup means that I know there are no residual effects of the installation or uninstallation.

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Then do what others have already suggested. Just delete the codec (LAV?) that is causing problems and then reinstall BDRB. Stop agonizing and start acting!
Do you believe that this would be enough to ensure that BD Rebuilder would work properly?

Also, what do you make of this statement by ggtop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtop View Post
My personal recommendation is using a different frame-server such as DGDecNV or DGDecIM and not rely on DirectShow.
Is this something that I need to concern myself with?
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Old 13th June 2017, 19:51   #10  |  Link
videoh
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Do you believe that this would be enough to ensure that BD Rebuilder would work properly?
Yes, I believe so. I think the key is to re-install BDRB in toto, letting it install all of its desired codecs.

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Also, what do you make of this statement by ggtop?
...
Is this something that I need to concern myself with?
ggtop is a smart, experienced guy so I would certainly be inclined to favorably consider his advice. I'm not that familiar with the DG stuff but my understanding is that it is more reliable for any scripts requiring random access, that it works for some streams that may fail with DirectShowSource(), such as interlaced VC1, and that in some cases it can speed up transcoding. On the other hand, it requires a modest donation and it may not bring much to the table for your simple BDRB rebuilding jobs, although I also understand it is used by a good number of BDRB users.
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Old 13th June 2017, 20:41   #11  |  Link
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I'm not that familiar with the DG stuff...
Uhh... ok...

Just as a point of reference -- I use it almost exclusively. In fact -- DGDecNV is the main reason I use an NVidia card in my dedicated encoding computer.
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Last edited by jdobbs; 13th June 2017 at 20:51.
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Old 13th June 2017, 21:01   #12  |  Link
videoh
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Uhh... ok...
Of course I meant in the context of BDRB. I have done a total of one rebuild using your awesome software. I simply don't do any backing up to speak of, except to troubleshoot issues that occasionally arise. Nevertheless, from that one use of BDRB, I was totally impressed by the simplicity, efficacy, and flexibility of the BDRB interface and the result was flawless. Should I ever need to do any real backups BDRB will be my natural choice.

May the force be with you, jdobbs.
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Old 13th June 2017, 21:32   #13  |  Link
manolito
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The first page of the BD-Rebuilder thread says that LAVFilters 0.65 is required, any other versions could cause audio/video sync problems.

Sorry, I do not buy it. LAVFilters 0.69 stable was released in December 2016, it is perfectly reliable and I do not see any reason why it would cause sync errors when the old and deprecated version 0.65 would not.


Cheers
manolito


//EDIT//
One additional recommendation for all versions of LAVFilters is to use DSS2Mod by forclip instead of DirectShowSource.dll. Much better results for source clips which are borked at the start (orphaned B-Frames).

Last edited by manolito; 13th June 2017 at 21:36.
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Old 13th June 2017, 21:37   #14  |  Link
videoh
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You could very well be correct, but jdobbs rightly recommends certain versions that he has tested and can certify to work correctly with his application. I suppose he is always evaluating possible tool upgrades and if users are requesting an update he would respond when possible.
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Old 13th June 2017, 21:45   #15  |  Link
ggtop
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Originally Posted by hbenthow View Post
How would I go about doing that? Is this recommendation specifically because of the LAV incident, or just general advice? And what difference in particular would it make?
When I started using BDRB I also used LAV. While I find LAV perfectly for playback I had issues with glitches in VC1 encoded material which ended in out-of-sync encodings. And I used the recommended version.

The reason this specific version 0.65 is recommended might be because no-one (mainly jdobbs) has the time to test all versions in all usecases.

I "recommended/advised" DGDec for its flawless frame-serving in all my encodings so far and speed boost.
Plus you do not have to check your system every now and then after an installation that may interfere with DirectShow. And that can be a lot...like in your case.

And like jdobbs: That was also the reason for me buying a Nvidia card for a few Euros...nothing spectacular...just a passive GT730

ggtop

Last edited by ggtop; 13th June 2017 at 21:59.
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Old 13th June 2017, 22:00   #16  |  Link
DrinkLyeAndDie
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Personally, I would use the Zoom Player Install Center and remove MadVR and LAV Filters just to be on the safe side. I see no reason to uninstall Zoom Player. Then manually install the standalone installers for MadVR and LAV Filters. You can decide which version to use on your own. YMMV. Personally, I haven't had any issues with LAV Filters 0.69.0 and BD-RB doesn't say anything negative... other than my working drive is running low on space. Need to get around to fixing that.

Quote:
[06-13-17] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.50.23
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 21.94GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.6.0.6, Ok
- LAVFILTERS: Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[06-13-17] Systems Settings Check complete
NOTE: I make use of DGDecNV, as well. Absolutely love DGDecNV.
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Old 13th June 2017, 22:14   #17  |  Link
hbenthow
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Originally Posted by ggtop View Post
When I started using BDRB I also used LAV. While I find LAV perfectly for playback I had issues with glitches in VC1 encoded material which ended in out-of-sync encodings. And I used the recommended version.

The reason this specific version 0.65 is recommended might be because no-one (mainly jdobbs) has the time to test all versions in all usecases.

I "recommended/advised" DGDec for its flawless frame-serving in all my encodings so far and speed boost.
Plus you do not have to check your system every now and then after an instalaltion that may interfere with DirectShow. And that can be a lot...like in your case.
I don't know whether DGDecNV (which apparently isn't freeware) or DGDecIM (which appears not to have been updated for three years) are very trustworthy at this point, and I'm not sure that I could master the complexities of using them (I don't even see an option to use them in BD Rebuilder). And then there's the possibility that they might encode with less-than-optimal picture quality (even if there's less chance of sync issues).

And my computer has an integrated graphics card (AMD Radeon HD 7480D) and what I've read of DGDecNV or DGDecIM seems to imply that they need a special type of video card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkLyeAndDie View Post
Personally, I would use the Zoom Player Install Center and remove MadVR and LAV Filters just to be on the safe side. I see no reason to uninstall Zoom Player. Then manually install the standalone installers for MadVR and LAV Filters. You can decide which version to use on your own.
Does BD Rebuilder need MadVR? Part of the problem with these installed codecs is that other than LAV, I don't know whether I had any of the others installed (or need them) before Zoom Player installed its new versions. The only way to find out exactly what I had before is to revert to the last system image backup that i made before installing Zoom Player

Also, Zoom Player installed various other codecs (DirectVobSub, DCoder Image Source, Bass Audio Decoder, and 3DYD Youtube Source), none of which I trust not to mess with BD Rebuilder or some other program in some way or another, so I'm rather pessimistic about the possibility of getting my system back to normal without reverting to my last system image (and thus eliminating Zoom Player as well).

I'm not sure whether Zoom Player is any good or not. It looks like it might be better for me just to do without it and use VLC.
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Old 13th June 2017, 22:33   #18  |  Link
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I don't know whether DGDecNV (which apparently isn't freeware) or DGDecIM (which appears not to have been updated for three years) are very trustworthy at this point, and I'm not sure that I could master the complexities of using them (I don't even see an option to use them in BD Rebuilder). And then there's the possibility that they might encode with less-than-optimal picture quality (even if there's less chance of sync issues).
LOL. First, you are wrong about when DGDecIM was last updated. The last update was March 18, 2017. Second, they are both highly trustworthy, as you been told in this thread. If you bothered to do even a small amount of research about it, you would find all the reassurance you could possibly need. And the fact that the author of BDRB specifically purchased an nVidia card to be able to use DGDecNV should give you another clue. Third, your talk about less-than-optimal picture quality is nonsense. It's a decoder. It's a binary matter whether it decodes correctly or not. Finally, regarding complexity, it is no worse that BDRB or any other similar application. There are many thousands of normal users that use it productively. And once you enable it in BDRB (yes, it is quite simple if you'd only ask), it's transparent to you.

Quote:
And my computer has an integrated graphics card (AMD Radeon HD 7480D) and what I've read of DGDecNV or DGDecIM seems to imply that they need a special type of video card.
OK, then you can't run DGDecNV (though you may be able to run DGDecIM depending on your processor). But there's no excuse for the ignorant FUD you just spewed.

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I'm rather pessimistic about the possibility of getting my system back to normal without reverting to my last system image (and thus eliminating Zoom Player as well).
So revert it. You have had several experts advise you but won't try following their advice. So do whatever you have to do and get over it. Just in case you didn't think of it, you can try the offered advice and if it doesn't work out, then you can revert. That may allow you to retain your beloved Zoom Player.

Time for me to walk away from this thread, just as jdobbs did from one of your other threads.

Last edited by videoh; 13th June 2017 at 22:54.
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Old 13th June 2017, 22:38   #19  |  Link
ggtop
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Originally Posted by hbenthow View Post
I don't know whether DGDecNV (which apparently isn't freeware) or DGDecIM (which appears not to have been updated for three years) are very trustworthy at this point, and I'm not sure that I could master the complexities of using them (I don't even see an option to use them in BD Rebuilder). And then there's the possibility that they might encode with less-than-optimal picture quality (even if there's less chance of sync issues).

And my computer has an integrated graphics card (AMD Radeon HD 7480D) and what I've read of DGDecNV or DGDecIM seems to imply that they need a special type of video card.
DGDecNV uses NVidia while DGDecIM works on Intel Chips (incl. SW Decoding)

DGDecNV frameserver can easily activated through settings menu while DecIM has to be activated through ini file. In case you need it:
BDREBUILDER.ini
Code:
DGDECIM=1
DGDECIM_SW_DECODE=n	n = 0/1 - 1=(Default) use software decoding; if set to 0 automatic detection is enabled
[Paths]
DGIndexIM=(path to DGIndexIM.exe)
DGDecIM=(path to DGDecodeIM.dll)
It's true you need specific hardware and have to buy a licence. So far it is worth every penny for me.

If the output wasn't perfect I wouldn't use it and I guess it's the same for all others using it.

But I don't want to say you have to use it. It's your decision of course. There is no best or worst. It all depends on your personal needs.

Regarding your player software I cannot help. I just use MPC (LAV is integrated as internal filters) with MadVR.

ggtop

Last edited by ggtop; 13th June 2017 at 22:56.
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Old 13th June 2017, 23:10   #20  |  Link
clsid
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Why don't you just test if the resulting file has any sync issues? LAV Filters are very reliable, so the 'problem' is most likely just hypothetical.
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