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Old 24th February 2002, 14:53   #21  |  Link
jdobbs
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Joseph2

I think you're onto something here. I'm playing with it, and I think with a little software support this could be a way to get to the "quality quick-copy" method everyone is looking for. I've been ignoring most of these IFOEdit threads because, let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder.

I'm in the middle of trying this using SpruceUp (it is just so damn simple to use) to create the VOB (after CCE encodes it), SpruceUp is limited to one audio stream, but that's all I ever use.

What I've done in the past is use ChapterXtractor to create a list of chapter start times, and then just mark those points (in SpruceUp)as chapters before multiplexing (creating the VOBs). SpruceUp appears to create one cell per chapter during VOB creation. I just copied the CCE based VOB (minus the VTS_01_0.VOB where menus are typically kept) into the original's VIDEO_TS directory and was surprised to see how much worked as-is (of course the chapters are off). I'm going to go through with IFOEdit now and see what happens.

Hope this method pans out and gets some support from the programmers. Many of us have spent a lot of time copying pieces of menus and reauthoring from scratch just to get some decent quality on my DVD backups...
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Old 24th February 2002, 19:50   #22  |  Link
grog
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Joseph -

I must be doing something wrong here....

Followed your advice but im still getting HUGE files....

At the moment the display reads - 591,048KB (2.8 Mbps) and this is at 4% of encoding - Surely this cannot be right -

In the advanced settings - the stream info stated that the file would be 3.8 Gig - I dont think this is going to happen at this rate... The average bitrate is set to 2500...

If I am being `Stupid` then please enlighten me :-)



GROG
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Old 24th February 2002, 21:41   #23  |  Link
DaSilva
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I had that problem to.
I had a expected filesize of 4.100.000.000 and during the encoding it looked like the file would get much bigger.
But after the encoding session the file was even 4.000.000.000 so even smaller than expected.

Hope it's that way to in your case!
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Old 25th February 2002, 01:00   #24  |  Link
Joseph2
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This thread is getting interesting

To DaSilva
The only file you will need will be FORREST_GUMP_d2v-vfapi.mpv, that must be renamed to .m2v to be imported into Scenarist.
I think Doom9 has a very good guide to support the terrible manual that comes with Scenarist. Go to the "MiniDVD Guide Authoring" and read it carefully. As you will not need any menu, only multiplex the files, it will be much simpler. The steps to be done will be:
- Open an standard project with 1 VTS, defining the appropiate AR (usually 16:9) in the assistant.
- Import the .m2v vile created with CCE.
- Add the desired audio streams you created with DVD2AVI (in the same order they appear after stripping undesired audio/subtitle streams with IfoEdit).
- Import the created subpicture streams. As I told in the beginning of the thread, the simplest and fastest method to import the subtitles in Scenarist is Subrip/Subadjust/MaestroSBT. I think in Maestro it is someway easier. In the Subtitles forum/Doom9 guides you can find additional information about these tools.
- Set the cell/chapter points in the created stream.
- Go back to the scenario editor, and put all the scenes under the same PGC following the appropiate order.
- Finally, multiplex and create the .VOB file collection that will replace the original ones.
That's all. Perhaps the first time it looks a bit complicated, but it's only this first time. Good luck.

To jdobbs
The only reason for me to continue using Scenarist is because I want to keep more than 1 AC3 audio stream. If that was not the case, for sure I will use a simpler multiplexer, because Scenarist is one the least friendly tools I have worked with.
I totally agree with you with the fact that when you work with CCE both in speed and quality, you cannot go back to ReMPEG2.
And one of the best thing in this method is that you avoid reauthoring menus. I also agree that some help from the programmers to simplify the final adjustements would be very welcome.

To grog
All my reencodings with CCE have finished with the exact (or slightly lower) desired filesize. Perhaps you have some trouble with your CCE version or hardware/software configuration. Have you found anything similar in the CCE forum?

Best regards
Joseph2
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Old 25th February 2002, 16:55   #25  |  Link
sundance
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Scenarist

Joseph2,
would you care to give me (us) a more precise description of how to do a basic task (one video and 2 ac3 tracks, no menues) with Scenarist. This application is a real tough one to work with...

-sundance-
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Old 26th February 2002, 05:51   #26  |  Link
jackjohnson24
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Im a newbie, can someone explain when im using joseph's process to keep the menus and extras how i calculate the desired file size of the movie and the bitrate
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Old 26th February 2002, 07:29   #27  |  Link
bumblebe
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"let's face it, the quality of the output from ReMPEG2 sucks big time when compared to almost EVERY other encoder. "

It's really not very noticeable at bitrates of 4mbps and above !
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Old 26th February 2002, 07:48   #28  |  Link
Joseph2
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To jdobbs
I have finally solved the 5-10 frames deviation in the chapter setting. You were completely right: you must fix the chapter points BEFORE doing the first pass in CCE. By doing so you get the chapters/cells in the exact desired point.
Sometimes one should read the manuals more carefully before doing anything...

To sundance
As I said in a previous post, DOOM9 has an excellent guide to begin with Scenarist. Just skip everything related with the menus and links for this method.
http://www.doom9.org/mpg/professinal_dvd_authoring.htm
To do what you propose it's as simple as this:
- Open the program, and in the fist assistant select the desired AR and only 1 VTS (one film)
- The program will open and you will have 4 Tabs. Go to the "Scenario editor" tab. Drag&drop from Windows explorer the video track (.m2v) under the VTS_1 that will appear. Scenarist will import the track after a checking step.
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.
- Go to the last tab "Layout editor". In step 3 click "Create DVD Video" and "Start". This will multiplex your track.
That's all
Perhaps it would be interesting to create an Scenarist independent forum, given the amount of questions arising from this software.

Best regards
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Old 26th February 2002, 13:58   #29  |  Link
sundance
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Scenarist

Joseph2,

Quote:
Originally posted by Joseph2
- Click on the imported track, and using the right mouse button you will have access to "Edit Track". This will open the "Track editor" tab with the selected track. Drag&drop the desired audio tracks under the video track in the desired order.
Hope you don't mind if I bother you again...
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.

-sundance-
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Old 26th February 2002, 16:32   #30  |  Link
tconnectt
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Re: Scenarist

Quote:
Originally posted by sundance
Joseph2,
After importing the video file generated with CCE (btw, which gave me an Error: "Failed to create navigation object") it says "1 file accepted". But: Where do you click on the imported track? None of the context menues I found gave me an "Edit Track" option.
-sundance-
The track should appear on the scenario editor under the VTS_1. If it is accepted, but not appear as a navigation object perhaps there was an error in that step. Did you drag & drop exactly over the VTS? You can try to import it again, but as it was already accepted, the track will be in your project. Navigate through the track explorer (right lower corner) 'til you find it and drag & drop it again over the VTS. When it is accepted on the scenario, a new black PGC with the film will appear under the VTS. Then you will be able to edit the track.
Good luck
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Old 27th February 2002, 00:09   #31  |  Link
DaSilva
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Finally I'm getting there.
It looks like CCE is gaining VERY much in popularity!!!
Actually there's no alternative since we are working with DVD's here so quality DOES matter why settle for less

I still have a few questions though.
It looks like Scenarist is a bit too complicated and since i'm only keeping one audio track i guess SpruceUp will do fine, right?

About the subtitle tracks (i usually keep 3 of them).
Can I just rip them from smartripper and use em like that?
If not can you please post the quick steps of how to make em ready for use in SpruceUp or Scenarist?
You already explained the apps u used but if possible a little more "in depth".

This thread is starting to get a COMPLETE DVD to DVD-r with CCE (newbie) GUIDE! All we have to do is just add the pictures

Nice work ... all of you guys!!!
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Old 27th February 2002, 07:34   #32  |  Link
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1) I don't know if SpruceUp can handle 3 subtitles. Perhaps someone can give more information about that. In my case I usually keep a couble of AC3 audio tracks + 1/2 subtitles. This reduces very much the number of available tools, specially if you wanna deal with chapter points. I thought that in this case only Maestro and Scenarist could be used, but I may be wrong. And talking about Scenarist, it's really hard if you wanna deal with menus and links, but if you only wanna multiplex, it's difficult only the first time.

2) I have gone through the subtitles forum, and AFAIK there is no way to import directly the subtitles (another task to be done for the wonderful software programmers in this area). Although most people prefer subtitle OCR, my experience in this field is not very good, because OCR don't work properly with subtitles in italic. I made some trials, and finally I developed a new and fast method that always work (at least for me). Very briefly, the steps would be:
- Ripp the subtitles with Subrip (I use 0.97 version). Select the desired language and create the .BMP subtitles.
- Export them in .srt format
- Now the only thing left is to modify the text .srt file to be compliant with Scenarist. It's just to modify the header and the structure and should be easily done in one step. I'm too lazy to program it myself so I use a couple of tricks
- Convert the .srt to .ssa with Subadjust. This will change the structure, but not the header.
- The final step is to create the Scenarist header. MaestroSBT is the only tool I have found for this task. However, it always creates a new set of .BMP files that you really don't need. I import the .ssa file, define the Scenarist output in another directory and generate the subtitles. I only want to keep the .sst file created, that i move to the directory with my original ripped BMP's.
- The only thing left is to change the addressed BMP filenames in the .sst file. MaestroSBT creates fixed filenames. Use any text editor, and replace the strings (usually "_") to match the original finenames.
- That's all. It's seems a bit tough, but it usually takes less than 5 minutes. However, as I said before, it's just a matter of text file editing, and perhaps there is a more direct procedure I have not found.
If you want more detail, I think we should move this part of the thread to the subtitle forum

Best regards
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Old 27th February 2002, 09:05   #33  |  Link
sundance
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@tconnectt:
Thanks for your help. Now I'm one step closer to my first home-made DVD. But I still have an issue:
You said I have to drop the m2v-file on the VTS_1 folder that appears in the scenario editor (with a new project that one shows 4 objects: First PGC, VideoManager, Title_1 and VTS_1 with a magenta line from First PGC to Title_1 and a black line from Title_1 to VTS_1).
But: I only get a new black film object (PGC) when I drop it on the Title_1 folder object! Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-

Last edited by sundance; 27th February 2002 at 09:28.
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Old 27th February 2002, 10:27   #34  |  Link
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Re: Scenarist

Quote:
Originally posted by sundance
@tconnectt:
Can you confirm that I'm doing right here? (software: Scenarist 2.6.0.0218)
That new object is able to import my 2 audio tracks and I can start the creation of the DVD file structure (which terminates after a few minutes because the total bitrate is too high - guess I have to re-encode my movie again...)

-sundance-
You're following the right way. When you drop the video file, it goes under any of the titles belonging to a VTS. The default is just one title, so the video file will be connected to that one.
About the second question, Scenarist is very strict with DVD maximum bitrate specifications, so I always prefer to encode in CCE with a maximun bitrate of about 8000-8500 in CCE when working with 2 audio streams. This value will depend on the number and bitrate of the audio streams you want to multiplex. CCE usually respects that value (you'd better check it with bitrate viewer), while other encoders, and specially ReMPEG2, produce high bitrate peaks outside DVD specificfations.
Good luck for the final step.
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Old 28th February 2002, 11:43   #35  |  Link
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One problem solved ... here's the next.
Have you got a rough estimation how much hard disk capacity is needed for the layout step? Tested it with 9GB on a FAT32 partition and on a network drive and still I get "insufficient disk space" errors.
(Scenarist is running on W2K)

-sundance-
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Old 28th February 2002, 14:58   #36  |  Link
tconnectt
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Quote:
Originally posted by sundance
One problem solved ... here's the next.
-sundance-
This one should be easier to solve. According to the Scenarist manual, you should have 3-4 times the size of your original audio/video files, depending if you only want the multiplexed VOB's, or also a DVD image (both in step 3 box). I assume that you will already have the audio/video files (let's say 4Gb total), and if you are following Joseph2 method you don't need any DVD image (uncheck that option), so you will need another 8 Gb. However, you must be very careful with the "mux_data" directory. When you create a project, the first time you try to create the VOB's, creates temporal files to be multiplexed in that directory. Every time you change something in your project, it will create additional new ones, creating a huge useless directory, unless you check the option "Delete when done" in the box "Step 2" of the Layout tab.
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Old 1st March 2002, 21:51   #37  |  Link
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Bump
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Old 1st March 2002, 23:20   #38  |  Link
DaSilva
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OK
Here's a quick roundup.
I got thru CCE for transcoding the video stream and I have multiplexed the video and the .ac3 file I got from DVD2AVI (haven't tried any subtitles yet, saving that for last).
Now here is the problem
Either the audio is out of sync (wich I don't think) or the .ac3 track isn't 6 channels.
It sounds like there is only the rear audio stream (the background sounds).
Also the Dolby Digital led isn't lighted on my DTT3500 receiver, what indicates there's NO real AC3 sound.

What's the best program I can use to strip the audio streams I want into .ac3 and without quality loss (smartripper maybe)?

Thanks again.
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Old 2nd March 2002, 00:32   #39  |  Link
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To DaSilva
I've never had a problem with the audio tracks generated with DVD2AVI. I always get DD signal both in the PC (Power DVD) and in the standalone. Before giving a try to other tools (vstrip or VobEdit), perhaps you could analyze your current AC3 audio tracks with Sonic Foundry Soft Encode, just to be sure everything's right before multiplexing.
Best regards.
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Old 2nd March 2002, 04:35   #40  |  Link
jarret3
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Hey Joseph,

I have been playing around alot with this method, and i think that there is great potential here! Anyway, i wanted to know if you are working with PAL or NTSC movies, and if you are working with an NTSC movie (asumming it is progressive) do u use force film in DVD2AVI to make your d2v file? Just Curious.

Thanks Again,
Jarret
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