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Old 26th August 2015, 04:32   #1  |  Link
Boulder
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Restoring "Remember that Night"

I'm trying to restore David Gilmour's Remember that Night, but I've run into some issues. SRestore with different frate values produces choppiness at some frames, TFM cleans things up but bobbing the output shows that some fields are not OK.

Here's a link to a sample:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bze...ew?usp=sharing

Can anyone verify whether TFM is the way to go and that the source is just butchered and cannot be restored properly?
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Old 27th August 2015, 00:39   #2  |  Link
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I'd be interested to know how they managed that. It looks like it's blended with something with a mismatched frame rate, since it seems to go in and out of sync.

But anyway,
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... doesn't look all that objectionable.

Last edited by kuchikirukia; 27th August 2015 at 01:09.
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Old 27th August 2015, 03:02   #3  |  Link
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The first few fields are reversed (BFF instead of TFF). After that, looking at individual fields, there are some frames where there is no temporal difference between fields. Then there are many frames where one of the fields is a blend, and the other is a good field.

I suspect that the source of this video is not the DVD, but instead is a capture from YouTube or some other source. I have seen this sort of thing from such captures. Suggestion: start with the DVD, if possible.
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Old 27th August 2015, 04:03   #4  |  Link
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That clip's from the original Blu-ray..

At first I thought it was just deinterlaced telecined stuff but FixBlendIVTC couldn't do a thing about it. The video is quite dark throughout the whole concert so it's difficult to get a good sample to analyse. Here's a different one, don't know if it's any better or if it just shows the same symptoms: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bze...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 27th August 2015, 04:22   #5  |  Link
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Wow, that's on the Blu-Ray? I don't own a Blu-Ray so I don't know how ripping is done. Can you tell, by playing the Blu-Ray disc, whether this problem exists on the disc? If it is, a transfer like that is incompetent.

I collect all manner of old concerts, and while this one is not old (most of my stuff is from the 60s), Pink Floyd is sort of old, so I put the DVD at the top of my Netflix queue, and I'll check it out. When I get it, if I find something that may be of use, I'll pass it along.
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Old 27th August 2015, 04:27   #6  |  Link
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Ripping BDs is basically the same as with DVDs, you even have the same problems with bad transfers as you can see here

There's a slightly unnatural look to the video when you watch it on a big screen. Fortunately the music's good so you don't notice it unless you start looking for it. Sometimes these ones shot in Europe (this one's from the UK) are shot in 25fps and you can SRestore it without any issues but unfortunately that's not the case here.
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Old 27th August 2015, 04:38   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder View Post
Sometimes these ones shot in Europe (this one's from the UK) are shot in 25fps and you can SRestore it without any issues but unfortunately that's not the case here.
Hmmm ... I wonder if there is a PAL version, or does such a thing not exist for Blu-Ray? The idea would be to get a disc that is as close to the "native" format in which it was shot.
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Old 27th August 2015, 05:14   #8  |  Link
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In answer to my own question, it does appear that a PAL version does exist. Whether it has the same problems is a question I cannot answer.

Remember That Night (UK-PAL)
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Old 27th August 2015, 06:37   #9  |  Link
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Only one way to find out.
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Old 27th August 2015, 06:38   #10  |  Link
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50i blended to be 60i?
Anyway OP, where are you getting that this is telecined?
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Old 27th August 2015, 07:30   #11  |  Link
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I saw one part in which this pattern of three cleanish, two slightly ghosted ones appeared. However, I'm not exactly sure if it was bobbed at that point because I've gone back and forth with this one.
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Old 27th August 2015, 10:14   #12  |  Link
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I'd say it's 60fps. There's a point in the cycle where two fields are close, but I'm not sure it's actually synced to a short cycle. It probably steps out, since I do notice some motion in some.
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Old 28th August 2015, 13:35   #13  |  Link
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I ended up QTGMCing the video and encoding at 59.94 fps. It's not perfect but very much watchable.

From what I've read, the concert was shot with multiple different cameras of varying quality - which you can also tell by the fact that some parts look much worse than others. Maybe the cameras were also shooting with different parameters and then the author had to make this weird hybrid mess out of the material to get at least something out
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Old 2nd September 2015, 02:36   #14  |  Link
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Netflix delivered the NTSC DVD today and I looked at it field-by-field.

It has exactly the same problems as the Blu-Ray footage you posted

So, the next step is to see if I can find the PAL version. I'm pretty sure the only way to get good video is to rent or buy the PAL version.

Whoever was responsible for the PAL to NTSC conversion clearly didn't come to class the day they taught "standards conversions."
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Old 2nd September 2015, 06:27   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
Whoever was responsible for the PAL to NTSC conversion clearly didn't come to class the day they taught "standards conversions."
PAL --> NTSC
you just need to:
1. Deinterlace (if interlaced)
2. Resize to 720x480
3. pulldown (go directly from 25 to 29.97 or slow it down a little bit to 24fps then apply a standard 3:2 stuff)

doubt if there is anyone in this world gotta "go to some class first" then figure out how to do this simple 3-step work...seriously?
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Old 2nd September 2015, 06:58   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feisty2 View Post
PAL --> NTSC
you just need to:
1. Deinterlace (if interlaced)
2. Resize to 720x480
3. pulldown (go directly from 25 to 29.97 or slow it down a little bit to 24fps then apply a standard 3:2 stuff)

doubt if there is anyone in this world gotta "go to some class first" then figure out how to do this simple 3-step work...seriously?
Well, maybe so, but did you download and look at the OP's video? It was from the Blu-Ray, and I just confirmed that the NTSC DVD is screwed up in exactly the same way. So, whoever was responsible for this conversion actually did need to go to class.

Also, the original was PAL interlaced ("50i"), NOT progressive, so standards conversion gets a little more complicated than what you outlined, and the trick of slowing down to 24 fps and then setting the 3:2 pulldown flag isn't an option.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 07:10   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
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Also, the original was PAL interlaced ("50i"), NOT progressive, so standards conversion gets a little more complicated than what you outlined.
more complicated, how?
it will be 50p after step1, then you throw half of the frames away, then it's 25fps, then you just do the pulldown

Code:
and the trick of slowing down to 24 fps and then setting the 3:2 pulldown flag isn't an option.
why? you speed movies up to PAL, why slowing PAL down to a movie isn't an option?
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Old 2nd September 2015, 08:11   #18  |  Link
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more complicated, how?
it will be 50p after step1, then you throw half of the frames away, then it's 25fps, then you just do the pulldown.
Does that produce smooth video? Maybe it is just the way you are describing it, but it doesn't sound quite right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feisty2 View Post
why? you speed movies up to PAL, why slowing PAL down to a movie isn't an option?
Once again, you are describing a technique used for progressive material. AFIK, you can't set the DVD pulldown flag for interlaced material.

Here's a good starting point for doing interlaced PAL to interlaced NTSC conversions. I think the code is from the AVISynth documentation:

PAL to NTSC Interlaced (old Neuron code)

You can also use QTGMC for these conversions. Nick Hope has posted some very nice scripts that can provide some amazing results although, like every script that uses motions estimation, you need to check the results carefully to make sure it doesn't create any noticeable artifacts.
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Old 2nd September 2015, 08:25   #19  |  Link
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I was just stating the obvious, you wanna get advanced, still pretty simple
1. Deinterlace (50p now)
2. Motion flow (svp kinda stuff) to 300fps
3. Select one frame out of every 5 frames (60p now)
4. Throw half of the fields away (60i, NTSC now)
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Old 2nd September 2015, 08:33   #20  |  Link
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I was just stating the obvious, you wanna get advanced, still pretty simple
1. Deinterlace (50p now)
2. Motion flow (svp kinda stuff) to 300fps
3. Select one frame out of every 5 frames (60p now)
4. Throw half of the fields away (60i, NTSC now)
Yup, that's it.
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