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Old 25th February 2015, 16:22   #1  |  Link
jriker1
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telecined

I have some footage that as I scroll thru it I occasionally notice interlacing. Tried running it thru dgindex but it keeps hanging partly thru the video so can't get a complete read. Died 9 minutes into the video at 98.6% FILM. Is it normal that you would have a video that is mostly progressive and occasionally has telecide? I'm assuming this is what's happening unless you have have part progressive and part interlaced materials which I guess you could. I was going to pass it thru this:

tfm(mode=5,pp=0,slow=1)
tdecimate(cycle=5)

but thought I would put it out here first to get input. Original file comes from DVD NTSC.

Thanks.

JR

EDIT: I ran my video thru the above and occasionally still see things like this:



EDIT EDIT: I ran the original VOB files for the entire DVD, not just the one chapter thru dvindex as knew that would go thru came out as:

Frame Rate: 29.970030
Video Type: Film 96.77%
Sequence: Field/Frame
Frame Type: Progressive
Field Order: Top

EDIT EDIT EDIT: If I do a deinterlace or a deinterlace AND detecine I still see some of these artifacts.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Here is the basic summary from Mediainfo:

Code:
Video
ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Maximum bit rate                         : 9 800 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 29.970 fps
Standard                                 : NTSC
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Time code of first frame                 : 01:33:08;04
Time code source                         : Group of pictures header
Should be noted that depending on which VOB in the set I open, MediaInfo reports 23.976 with 2:3 pulldown and progressive or 29.97 interlaced.

Also this is the pattern in the action scenes. Also see interlacing between scene transitions:

progressive
progressive
progressive
interlaced
interlaced
progressive
progressive
progressive
interlaced
interlaced
progressive
progressive
progressive
interlaced
interlaced
progressive
progressive
progressive
interlaced
interlaced
progressive

If I deinterlace with QTGMC it seems like on the interlaced frames there is duplication as when i step thru the frame looks the same on two frames just slightly tinted differently.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Here is the result of F5 on DGIndex running all the way thru the footage:



Interesting it shows 98% FILM but Interlaced. Think that's interesting. I'm assuming this is a form of telecine even though the output from AVISynth detelecine filter used wasn't clean. Tried it thru Handbrake with setting the detelecine to default. Seemed to do a better job, but not sure if it's the best tool to use or what frame rate I am supposed to select when doing this. Be it Source, or 29.97 or 23.976. But just rambling. Not sure Handbrake is the best path for this. Or if I should select Forced Film in DGIndex and using AVISynth process it with no additional filters thru VDub?

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: Tried both d2v ideas, honoring pulldown and forced film. Both still showed artifacts in some motions. Forced Film version less. Right now looks like if you use the honor pulldown option in DGIndex in the d2v file and then the detecine method at the top of my post it works better together than running on the MKV. I will stop babbling here in the hopes an expert will tell me what I'm doing right or wrong or how I should proceed for optimal output.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: OK, guess I solved this myself. Seems running with an MKV in AVISynth causes the detelecine to be ineffective. I did the following:

- MakeMKV individual movies to MKV so I break up the VOB's by episode.
- In DOS convert MKV to VOB: z:\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg.exe -i <file>.mkv -acodec copy -vcodec copy <file>.vob
- Open vob in dgindex and create d2v file making sure honor pulldown flag is set and save project d2v file
- Create AVS file similar to:
V=MPEG2Source("D:\Conversion\2 - Working\Rodgers\title00.d2v")
A=NicAC3Source("D:\Conversion\2 - Working\Rodgers\title00 T80 2_0ch 192Kbps DELAY 0ms.ac3")
AudioDub(V, A)
tfm(mode=5,pp=0,slow=1)
tdecimate(cycle=5)
- Open AVS in VDub (make sure detelecine is necessary by scanning for switching progressive and interlaced flags without the tfm and tdecimate lines in the AVS)
Video > Fast Recompress
Video > Compression > Lagarith > YUY2
Audio > Direct Stream Copy
File > Save as AVI
Then process resulting AVI as you wish. In my case into Premiere Pro to run NeatVideo on the content.

It should be noticed that one of the VOB files I created came out Progressive not Interlaced in DGIndex and Film was like 99.8%. Looking at it manually still showed it was telecined.

If anyone has any input other than it's a painful process, let me know.

JR

Last edited by jriker1; 26th February 2015 at 21:12.
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Old 27th February 2015, 05:50   #2  |  Link
ChiDragon
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I feel like you're missing a lot of the basic underpinnings, like what Forced Film and Honor Pulldown actually do.

Also, your first mention of MKV was in the 6th edit. Were we supposed to read your mind that you were remuxing it? How were you loading the MKV into Avisynth? If DirectShowSource, that can easily cause problems with soft pulldown.

Next time please include samples of the source where it causes problems for you. It's just too difficult to guess otherwise.
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Old 27th February 2015, 05:57   #3  |  Link
manono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriker1 View Post
Is it normal that you would have a video that is mostly progressive and occasionally has telecide?
Yes, perfectly normal. And what you're referring to is commonly called 'hard telecine' (the 3 progressive and 2 interlaced frame pattern encoded into the video) and not 'telecide'.
Quote:
Interesting it shows 98% FILM but Interlaced. Think that's interesting.
Not interesting at all as that refers to the last frame only.

Ordinarily, when using TIVTC and your video is a mix of soft and hard telecine, one does something like this:

TFM(d2v="Movie.d2v")
TDecimate


That way the soft telecine is read as if you were using Forced Film (almost) and only the hard telecine (the sections marked as hard telecine or interlaced) actually goes through the IVTC process. It's explained in the TFM doc. For a more informed reply you should make available a short piece from the source, one that shows whatever problem(s) you think you're having.

Quote:
If anyone has any input other than it's a painful process, let me know.
Much of what you did was a complete waste of time. MKV? Vob-by-Vob?

Chidragon beat me to it.

Last edited by manono; 27th February 2015 at 08:08.
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Old 27th February 2015, 06:02   #4  |  Link
feisty2
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yet again, chroma blend, it will happen when you convert interlaced yuy2 to yv12 without separating fields (convolution on interlaced clip)
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Old 27th February 2015, 16:12   #5  |  Link
jriker1
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Thanks for the replies. Glad to hear I'm probably wasting a lot of time. Why I'm here to get advice.

Already went thru my current workflow. The reason for MKV is no matter what tool I used StreamClip or otherwise, when I tried to pull out the individual movies from the DVD I lost audio sync. Even if I stuck the entire VOB directly into Premiere the final output was out of sync. Was even running into some weird hiccups in the video and audio that didn't happen when MakeMKV did whatever it does so stuck with it.

In the end want a progressive clip I can open in Premiere pro to use NeatVideo to cleanup the content. Below is a link to a small clip. Appreciate any input on how I should be approaching this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ykxnko13nm...-part.VOB?dl=0

Note if codec type comes into play here, I have massive drive space on an array so lossless or uncompressed is my preference for interim files.

Thanks.

JR
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Old 27th February 2015, 18:06   #6  |  Link
creaothceann
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I get perfect results with

Code:
MPEG2Source("VTS_01_1-part.d2v", idct=5)
Trim(4, 0)
AssumeTFF
Telecide(guide=1)
Decimate
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Old 27th February 2015, 20:17   #7  |  Link
manono
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Maybe not the best example as the sample can be 'Forced Film'. However, with 'Honor Pulldown Flags' used:

MPEG2Source("Test.d2v")
TFM(D2V="Test.d2v").TDecimate()


Neither way shows the chroma interlacing of your earlier picture.

Quote:
In the end want a progressive clip I can open in Premiere pro to use NeatVideo to cleanup the content.
That's the only reason you're using Premiere? You can use NeatVideo within VDub. Or you can create a lossless AVI for use in Premiere using Lagarith or UT Video Codec or some such.
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Old 27th February 2015, 22:28   #8  |  Link
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Maybe you are interesting in see: https://www.doom9.org/showthread.php...14#post1692414
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Old 28th February 2015, 05:20   #9  |  Link
jriker1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manono View Post
Maybe not the best example as the sample can be 'Forced Film'. However, with 'Honor Pulldown Flags' used:

MPEG2Source("Test.d2v")
TFM(D2V="Test.d2v").TDecimate()


Neither way shows the chroma interlacing of your earlier picture.


That's the only reason you're using Premiere? You can use NeatVideo within VDub. Or you can create a lossless AVI for use in Premiere using Lagarith or UT Video Codec or some such.
Yeah, when you take the VOB and use DG with it that doesn't happened. Seemed to be using the MKV file that was causing TFM not to work fully.

JR
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Old 28th February 2015, 06:34   #10  |  Link
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By using the d2v, you aren't actually touching the mkv at all, the d2v links back to the VOB. That's why everyone's calling it a waste of time. If you really need it to work with a varying audio sync, you need to use ffms2 or LwLibavVideoSource, though making your trims within AviSynth would be handier.
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