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Old 26th February 2014, 06:00   #1  |  Link
orion44
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Yadifmod+nnedi3, are the following settings correct?

I'm making a backup of a DVD which is interlaced. It has a top field first.

Are the following yadifmod and nnedi3 settings correct and optimal?

Code:
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\yadifmod.dll")
MPEG2Source("D:\Project\MPV.d2v")
interp=nnedi3(field=1)
yadifmod(order=1, field=-1, mode=0, edeint=interp)
Crop(6,2,710,478)
LanczosResize(656,496)
#Spline36Resize(656,496)

Last edited by orion44; 26th February 2014 at 06:02.
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Old 26th February 2014, 17:21   #2  |  Link
TheSkiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion44 View Post
interp=nnedi3(field=1)
This is wrong. This will make nnedi3 work in "same rate, keep top field" mode, but you need double rate!

Change it to -2.



For Yadifmod field=-1 is redundant (-1 is default). Since MPEG2Source correctly reports the field order to AviSynth, order=1 isn't needed either.


Edit: Oops, scratch the part about nnedi3, just noticed you are in fact (why?) using Yadifmod in same rate mode (mode=0) rather than double. In that case, nnedi3(field=1) is correct, sorry.

Last edited by TheSkiller; 26th February 2014 at 17:29.
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Old 26th February 2014, 22:31   #3  |  Link
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Originally Posted by TheSkiller View Post


Edit: Oops, scratch the part about nnedi3, just noticed you are in fact (why?) using Yadifmod in same rate mode (mode=0) rather than double. In that case, nnedi3(field=1) is correct, sorry.
What is the benefit of using double rate mode?
I want the output to have the same frame rate as the input.

This is the script that I found while googling for the best way to deinterlace dvd's.
I realize that there are better but much slower deinterlacers, but they are too complicated for me.

Anyway, I just tested the script, and the deinterlaced video looks perfect, so I'll stick with this deinterlacer.
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Old 26th February 2014, 22:40   #4  |  Link
turbojet
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Double rate deinterlacing is to keep more horizontal resolution but frankly I think nnedi3 looks better in single rate mode. Not sure why that is, the opposite is true for other deinterlacers I've tried.

I don't find yadifmod doing much of anything for nnedi3 except slowing the script down. Have you tried running nnedi3() by itself?

While most things you come across will probably be tff it might be best to use what avisynth detects by using nnedi3(field=-1) which is default so not needed and yadifmod(order=-1) also default, not needed. Simplified as yadifmod(edeint=nnedi3())
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Old 26th February 2014, 23:51   #5  |  Link
lansing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion44 View Post
What is the benefit of using double rate mode?
I want the output to have the same frame rate as the input.

This is the script that I found while googling for the best way to deinterlace dvd's.
I realize that there are better but much slower deinterlacers, but they are too complicated for me.

Anyway, I just tested the script, and the deinterlaced video looks perfect, so I'll stick with this deinterlacer.
if your source is natively interlaced, like tv broadcast in Asia, Europe and America, which is 25i and 30i, double rate deinterlacing (bobbing) to 50fps/60fps is the correct way to do it. If you use single rate deinterlace, then you are throwing away half of the information, and it will be very noticeable on playback as you will see stuttering.
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Old 27th February 2014, 00:08   #6  |  Link
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I notice no stutter with 30p encoded from true 60i sources.
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Old 27th February 2014, 04:52   #7  |  Link
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there will be stutter if your source is natively interlaced and you do single rate deinterlace. You can compare panning shots for more noticeable difference.
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Old 27th February 2014, 08:08   #8  |  Link
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60i source and encoded files I don't notice any stutter on nnedi3_30. I take back yadifmod isn't useful with nnedi3, with double rate it helps stabilize high contrast lines.
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Old 27th February 2014, 10:59   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
60i source and encoded files I don't notice any stutter on nnedi3_30. I take back yadifmod isn't useful with nnedi3, with double rate it helps stabilize high contrast lines.
I saw stuttering as soon as the man opened up his arm in the first 2 seconds on the 30p video. I don't think we need trained eyes to notice this.
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Old 28th February 2014, 12:46   #10  |  Link
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I really can't see that but it must be different brains or something. The Hobbit 48 fps which some people liked watching while others, like myself, couldn't could be the same sort of situation. Do you normally interpolate?
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Old 2nd March 2014, 03:17   #11  |  Link
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Can't see anything wrong with the arm. I always thought the "stutter" is e.g. when the video kind of "jiggles" (like, from right to left) instead of being smooth, like the seconds where they they approach the chairs, but I guess that's not it.

edit: hmm, I think now I understand. While 60i played smoothly for me (aside from what I said but I encounter that frequently and have gotten used to it), the yadifmod 60 stopped several times, picture kind of froze, during the bit where they greeted and sat down. Is that considered 'stutter'? I think so, as yadifmod 60 version is basically impossible to watch. In fact, only the nnedi3 30 version is watchable.

Last edited by aldix; 2nd March 2014 at 03:30.
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Old 2nd March 2014, 14:56   #12  |  Link
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Unless the playback cannot keep up with the video, double rate (60 fps) should look as good as or better than single rate. There's no way it looks worse.
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Old 4th March 2014, 11:33   #13  |  Link
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I know some people prefer one look or the other, but it's quite rare for people to be unable to see a difference between true 60p and true 30p - especially if the 30p is generated simply by dropping frames from true 60p. (Properly deinterlacing true interlaced 60i gives good enough 60p for the above to remain true.)

The move movement there is, and the smoother it's supposed to be (e.g. fast but smooth panning), the more obvious the difference is.

However, unless your playback chain can display 60p cleanly and smoothly, with each frame shown once and for the same length of time, then 60p itself can look slightly stuttery due to lousy playback, and in this case 30p might not look that different.


btw, the difference between 50p and 25p is even more apparent and really obvious when displayed properly. However, if you watch it on a native 60fps display, 50p will look more similar to 25p because both will exhibit stutter due to irregular frame repeating.

Cheers,
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Old 5th March 2014, 00:57   #14  |  Link
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aldix: I think you have load issues playing back 60p. None of the samples have noticeable stutter to me. The nearly double resources needed to play 60p vs 30p is large disadvantage.

TheSkiller: While I agree with your statement with yadif and leakkernelbob, I don't agree with it with nnedi3. While the video I posted doesn't show it I did some comparisons a while back where nnedi3 60p had much uglier high contrast horizontal lines and their wasn't any more detail.

2Bdecided: Aldix and I can't see it but lansing can, it might not be that rare? If it really was rare wouldn't most people use frame interpolation on tv's? Searching on the internet most seem to prefer it off even if it is really good and doesn't have the "soap opera effect" the movement isn't natural.
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Old 5th March 2014, 15:23   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
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2Bdecided: Aldix and I can't see it but lansing can, it might not be that rare? If it really was rare wouldn't most people use frame interpolation on tv's? Searching on the internet most seem to prefer it off even if it is really good and doesn't have the "soap opera effect" the movement isn't natural.
...which would indicate they can see a difference.

Taking 24fps content and inventing new frames (usually badly) via motion interpolation is quite different from having real temporal information and throwing it away. Plus the shutter speed is usually chosen intelligently to complement the frame rate, and subsequent changes in frame rate often ignore this.

Then again, while all the vocal film buffs across the internet will decry frame interpolation, and every smart person will tell you they switch it off, TV still come with it switched on by default - and broadcasters know that the vast majority of viewers leave it on.

I'm sure there are some people who can't see it. But my best guess is that more people don't have 1:1 frame accurate stutter-free playback on their PCs - and least not for 1080p60.

FWIW you need over 200fps to get natural movement, but 60fps is obviously smoother than 30fps.

Cheers,
David.
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Old 6th March 2014, 03:25   #16  |  Link
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In real layman's terms, what is "stutter"?

@turbojet: I don't know. I have Potplayer + LAV + MadVR (though presently ffdshow for scaling). Nor have I had any problems in the past, i.e. there's this 60fps sample on SVP's site and that looked very very nice on my set-up. As have some of my own encodes which I've done in 60fps (29... fps interlaced source QTGMC'ed into 60).

I don't know what else to tell you guys.
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