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Old 23rd January 2014, 22:44   #1  |  Link
Atlantis
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QTGMC for film based?

First I have to say that I recently discovered QTGMC and I'm amazed by its simplicity and quality. I always had problems deinterlacing and now it's done perfectly and I'm not afraid by interlaced sources!

Next comes film based materials like my Frasier DVDs I'm trying to backup. It's a real mess. No matter what I use like inverse telecine, it seems impossible to go to 23.976. There is always a few frames here and there jumping or jerking.

Then I read Decomb manual and it says
Quote:
One thing to be aware of is that you may not always want to decimate 30fps material. For example, if your clip is a hybrid of 3:2 progressive and normal interlaced video, if you decimate it you'll make the video portions jerky. Often with such clips it is better to leave them at their original frame rate by omitting Decimate().
I think I have to stay in 29.97 and forget decimate with these DVDs. That's the only smooth result with no jumping I get.

2 Questions.

1- Is there any complicated script like QTGMC that is easy and can do all itself with perfect results for film based material? It doesn't matter if it's slow like QTGMC.

2- Imagine that I have to keep my shows in 29.97. Should I inverse telecine or use QTGMC? I used it and it gave a very smooth and nice result. What does QTGMC do on film based source? Does it simply consider it interlaced and I lose details or is it smarter and do some kind of inverse telecine?
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Old 23rd January 2014, 23:28   #2  |  Link
johnmeyer
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Everyone does things differently. For me, I would not choose QTGMC if all I needed to do was IVTC. I do IVTC quite frequently and have had great success with:

TIVTC

For movies stored on videotape or DVD in telecined format, this is often all you need:

Code:
tfm(display=false)
tdecimate()
While it is true that some material, such as documentaries, often have a mix of telecined film and video, most Hollywood style movies are generally 100% film cadence.

I think there is another plugin that many users on this forum prefer over TIVTC, and hopefully one of them will mention that alternative.
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Old 24th January 2014, 00:48   #3  |  Link
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@Atlantis

For best help please post a link to an unprocessed source stream sample.
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Old 24th January 2014, 11:47   #4  |  Link
Atlantis
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I was hoping for an easy solution like QTGMC that would fit all where you don't need to provide a sample, where you don't need to inspect the video closely.
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Old 24th January 2014, 12:21   #5  |  Link
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Well, even with QTGMC() you have various quality levels to choose from. But if you just want to keep a backup of the DVDs, why not just copy the .vobs over or make complete .iso images of the discs?
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Old 24th January 2014, 12:52   #6  |  Link
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You can use:

Code:
QTGMC( Preset="Slower", SubPel=2, Sourcematch=3, Lossless=2).assumefps(60000,1001)
srestore(24000.0/1001.0)
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Old 24th January 2014, 17:20   #7  |  Link
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Thanks Overdrive80. I am trying your script now. It's real slow at 2.5 FPS but if it gives great result I will be happy. I will let you know in 4 hours.

I don't want to watch the original vobs because they are interlaced. I prefer progressive material.
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Old 24th January 2014, 17:30   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis View Post
I was hoping for an easy solution like QTGMC that would fit all where you don't need to provide a sample, where you don't need to inspect the video closely.
Did you try the solution I posted? It does IVTC and does it MUCH faster than 2.5 fps.
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Old 24th January 2014, 17:32   #9  |  Link
poisondeathray
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But if your description was accurate (a mix of film and video) , it will still be choppy with that script

Having a single 24 fps frame rate means video sections will be choppy due to missing frames.

Having a single 30 fps frame rate means most of it will be have slight choppiness (24p sections in 30p means every 5,6th frame repeated) .

Leaving it at 60 fps mean 24fps sections have the "normal" 3:2 judder on a 60Hz display, but 30fps sections will look ok because they are evenly spaced in time

The other option is to make it VFR. 24fps sections play properly at 24fps. 30fps sections play properly at 30fps.
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Old 24th January 2014, 21:14   #10  |  Link
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Here are results:

Finished Overdrive80 script. The result is not good. It's actually the worst result that I have gotten so far. The individual frames look good but it plays jerky with jumps at 23.976 fps.

@johnmeyer. Yes I did try tfm. As I said in my original post, I did try all kind of inverse telecine. I tried all the options available in MEGUI partially interlaced partially film and more.

As I said I do get good results with tfm or decomb at 29.97fps. All the problem comes from decimate. If I try to convert that smooth progressive 29.97 result to 23.976, I get bad slight jumps here and there. I get only smooth motion at 29.97 fps.

Source as I said is Frasier (Season 3 to be exact) and the 5-6 seconds of the beginning title must have been created on video but the show is recorded on film for sure. I'm not even talking about the title sequence, just the main body of the show, the part that is recorded on film, doesn't run smooth at 23.976.

Where can I upload a sample for you guys? What site do you recommend?

Last edited by Atlantis; 24th January 2014 at 21:17.
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Old 24th January 2014, 21:56   #11  |  Link
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Mediafire
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Old 24th January 2014, 23:17   #12  |  Link
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Here is an original untouched sample:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/p3ojhaqapb31qn2/test.mkv
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Old 24th January 2014, 23:32   #13  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis View Post
Here are results:

Finished Overdrive80 script. The result is not good. It's actually the worst result that I have gotten so far. The individual frames look good but it plays jerky with jumps at 23.976 fps.
In this case, you can use:

Code:
QTGMC( Preset="Slower", SubPel=2, Sourcematch=3, Lossless=2).assumefps(30000,1001)
You get double-framecount at 30fps, a big file but I think without jerkiness.

Or like says poyson, should use VFR.
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Old 25th January 2014, 00:31   #14  |  Link
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Not working. The result is in slow motion. I posted the original file, please check on it.
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Old 25th January 2014, 01:04   #15  |  Link
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The only video section in that sample is the title sequence (the animated graphics) . The rest is film . Unless you cut the wrong sample, I don't see the problem
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Old 25th January 2014, 01:17   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
The only video section in that sample is the title sequence (the animated graphics) . The rest is film . Unless you cut the wrong sample, I don't see the problem
I know. You will see the problem if you do it yourself. Try to get a smooth 23.976 fps playback from that. I posted exactly the problematic part. I'm not even talking about the title sequence. I consider it doesn't exist. Just try to get a 23.976 file from that sample I posted and you will see. The title sequence is not the problem, it's the rest!
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Old 25th January 2014, 01:25   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlantis View Post
I know. You will see the problem if you do it yourself. Try to get a smooth 23.976 fps playback from that. I posted exactly the problematic part. I'm not even talking about the title sequence. I consider it doesn't exist. Just try to get a 23.976 file from that sample I posted and you will see. The title sequence is not the problem, it's the rest!

It's fine here, frame by frame. You can tell right away when looking at the fields, it's a perfect 3:2 . Ignoring the title sequence, the only problem might be the last frame in your sample (but that might be the way you cut the sample)

Index with "honor pulldown flags"

Mpeg2Source()
AssumeTFF()
TFM()
TDecimate()

I can post an encode if you don't believe me

Script as above, title sequence trimmed off
https://www.mediafire.com/?cc53u5u2b8978dj

Last edited by poisondeathray; 25th January 2014 at 01:40.
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Old 25th January 2014, 09:47   #18  |  Link
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Thanks for taking your time. I watched your clip and it's perfect. That's what I want but I am unable to get that result. I used what you said

Code:
LoadPlugin("xxxxxxxxx\MeGUI\tools\ffms\ffms2.dll")
FFVideoSource("xxxxxxxxxx\test\test.mkv", fpsnum=30000, fpsden=1001, threads=1)
LoadPlugin("xxxxxxxxxxxxxx\MeGUI\tools\avisynth_plugin\TIVTC.dll")

AssumeTFF()
TFM()
TDecimate()
Strange I don't get the same result as you with this script. I can only think of 2 things. Either ffms2 messes things up, or because I do it from the beginning that includes the titles, it messes the rest up.

Could you please try again and do the whole clip? Please don't trim anything.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:27   #19  |  Link
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Interesting dgindex+tivtc handles it but not tivtc itself. Never seen that. It's also mostly film so you can speed it up using tfm's d2v parameter.

This is the steps I took:
1. demux mkv with mkvextractgui2
2. dgindex the mpg file with output>honor pulldown
3. used this avs
Code:
mpeg2source("test.d2v")
TFM(d2v="test.d2v")
TDecimate()
autocrop(0,threshold=20,hMultOf=4)
4. encode

While some use assumetff/bff before tivtc, I never saw the use as tivtc auto detects it but maybe it's a safety valve.
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Last edited by turbojet; 25th January 2014 at 10:30.
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Old 25th January 2014, 10:43   #20  |  Link
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Ok I did more tests and I found the problem. The problem is with ffms2/FFVideoSource. FFMSIndex is buggy and I had many problems with it. I also had a lossless UT Video file and when opened with FFVideoSource, it gives jumpy encodes. I'm going to avoid FFMSIndex from now on.

Could you please try and index the MKV file with FFMSIndex and then encode? Can you replicate the bug? use my script above.

When I use
Code:
LoadPlugin("xxxxxx\MeGUI\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("xxxxxxxx\test\test_track1_eng.d2v")
all is good.
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