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Old 29th July 2013, 16:48   #1  |  Link
schweinsz
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The Next Generation Internet Video (NGIV) Codec project

The Next Generation Internet Video (NGIV) Codec project is new video coding project that is designed to get or exceed the new generation international video coding standard, HEVC/H.265 on the coding efficiency while maintaining the similar the enc./dec. complexity. Currently only the intra-prediction part is finished partly.
The main features are as follows:
The max coding unit is 64x64.
High flexible variable block size intra prediction and coding.
Chroma splitting tree is undependent on the Luma splitting tree.
Line by line/colomn by colomn curved intra prediction.
40 directional intra prediction for luma and 6 directional for chroma.
the KLT transform.

Currently the deblocking filter is not finished. I am trying some advanced intra prediction algorithms to get higher coding efficiency. After I finish these, I will finish the deblocking filter, next I will try to invent a in-loop filter that is similar the SAO in the HEVC.
The NGIV software v20130729.
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Old 29th July 2013, 17:40   #2  |  Link
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So that's what you have been up to! It's an exciting development. Thanks for choosing Doom9 forum to promulgate and discuss it. I certainly plan to closely follow the project's evolution.
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Old 29th July 2013, 23:00   #3  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
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Nice one...
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Old 31st July 2013, 09:29   #4  |  Link
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hmm, how to use it ?
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Old 31st July 2013, 17:40   #5  |  Link
schweinsz
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Currently you can only read the code and understand the algorithms. Currently the intra prediction part is actually better/more efficient than the HEVC's.
When I finish the test of the advanced intra coding algorithm, the deblocking filter, I will code the intra decoder. At that time, you/I can compare the codec with the HEVC's intra coding part.
Then I will go to the inter coding.
Edit: you can read the video-io.h and the video-io.c, there is some sequences preset. You can change it to yours, then you can code the sequence. You can set the qp. Because it is without any fast algorithm, so it is very slow.

Last edited by schweinsz; 31st July 2013 at 17:43.
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Old 1st August 2013, 00:32   #6  |  Link
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Would you be willing to set up a codebase on github or bitbucket? I'd love to follow along with development, as early as it is.
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Old 1st August 2013, 00:39   #7  |  Link
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I think if you seriously want your format to gain some use on the internet, you will need at least:

(1) A reference decoder library that can easily be compiled and used on all major platforms, i.e. Windows, Linux, MacOS, Android and iOS.

(2) A proper specification of your video format (bitstream syntax, etc) similar to the H.264/HEVC specifications - and please don't say "look at the code", I mean a real specification

(3) Convince Mozilla and/or Google and/or Microsoft and/or Apple to add support for the format into their web-browsers

What are you plans/thoughts on this ???


Furthermore: Even if it's in an early stage, can you provide sample encodes of the typical test sequences (e.g. "Parkrun" or "Parkjoy") any time soon, so we can see how it compares to, e.g., H.264 at the same bitrate?

Before that, I tend to be very skeptical about any claims about "coding efficiency" or "complexity"
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Old 1st August 2013, 02:02   #8  |  Link
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The project is just getting started and I'm sure schweinsz knows what is needed to make it successful. It's very interesting theoretically in any case. So I would advise some patience. schweinsz hasn't made any outrageous claims and he shares his work with us. What's not to like?
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Old 1st August 2013, 11:07   #9  |  Link
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It seems like it's at the point of "this is AWESOME" rather than locked down right now, kind of like HEVC three years ago when it had 64x64 transforms and other bits that made each frame take ten minutes to encode. Tech previews are cool, let's see what shakes out eventually.
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Old 1st August 2013, 17:05   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
Would you be willing to set up a codebase on github or bitbucket? I'd love to follow along with development, as early as it is.
I can, but I must learn about the git because I am not familar with this.
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Old 1st August 2013, 21:25   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR View Post
I think if you seriously want your format to gain some use on the internet, you will need at least:

(1) A reference decoder library that can easily be compiled and used on all major platforms, i.e. Windows, Linux, MacOS, Android and iOS.

(2) A proper specification of your video format (bitstream syntax, etc) similar to the H.264/HEVC specifications - and please don't say "look at the code", I mean a real specification

(3) Convince Mozilla and/or Google and/or Microsoft and/or Apple to add support for the format into their web-browsers
(4) Input from experienced hardware designers before all features are solidified. Very often a simple feature can cause big headaches for HW designs; conversely a small change that might not be obvious in SW could save a great deal of bandwidth and/or silicon area.
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Old 10th August 2013, 12:57   #12  |  Link
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I am going to ask something which i have had in my mind for some time. Why do all Next ( or Next Next Gen ) try to get decode Efficiency of H.264 while offer similar H.265 Quality performance? Surely as we move on, and by the time any of these Next Gen Video codec comes out finalised we would be in 10nm era.

Shouldn't these new codec aim at H.265 similar decode efficiency while offer significantly better quality then H.265?
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Old 11th August 2013, 19:26   #13  |  Link
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lower cpu/gpu power to decode -> potentially more devices which can decode via software -> more potential users
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Old 12th August 2013, 05:51   #14  |  Link
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lower cpu/gpu power to decode -> potentially more devices which can decode via software -> more potential users
Yes, but that "lower" is comparative. What is consider "higher" today will be "lower" tomorrow.

The future are mobile. Where you expect dedicated Video Decoder or DSP to do these jobs. By the time this Next Gen Video is out we are talking about a few years down the road.

That is of coz assuming NGIV doesn't happen in 1-2 years. And i like to be proven wrong on this one.
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Old 12th August 2013, 12:33   #15  |  Link
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What is consider "higher" today will be "lower" tomorrow.
Only if you assume that only people with new hardware are your target group. A lot of folks still have a lot of not so up-to-date hardware which they normally use.
Until a few days ago I was using a ~6 year old laptop, the cpu inside my newest pc is 3years old (i7 875k @ 3.6GHz), my mac book is 6 years old, my small tablet is 3 years old and I'm not really in a need to upgrade.
(aside from the laptop which got broken in an accident, but hey if buffered my fall down a few stairs quite well and the sdd is still okay)
-> just because there is new hardware out there which is faster doesn't mean everybody has it and only uses that piece of hardware.
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Old 12th August 2013, 13:06   #16  |  Link
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Only if you assume that only people with new hardware are your target group. A lot of folks still have a lot of not so up-to-date hardware which they normally use.
Until a few days ago I was using a ~6 year old laptop, the cpu inside my newest pc is 3years old (i7 875k @ 3.6GHz), my mac book is 6 years old, my small tablet is 3 years old and I'm not really in a need to upgrade.
(aside from the laptop which got broken in an accident, but hey if buffered my fall down a few stairs quite well and the sdd is still okay)
-> just because there is new hardware out there which is faster doesn't mean everybody has it and only uses that piece of hardware.
True. I hope NGIV will be here soon. Need Kickstarter to rise funds?
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Old 14th August 2013, 02:24   #17  |  Link
schweinsz
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Originally Posted by iwod View Post
I am going to ask something which i have had in my mind for some time. Why do all Next ( or Next Next Gen ) try to get decode Efficiency of H.264 while offer similar H.265 Quality performance? Surely as we move on, and by the time any of these Next Gen Video codec comes out finalised we would be in 10nm era.

Shouldn't these new codec aim at H.265 similar decode efficiency while offer significantly better quality then H.265?
The H.265 is with similar decoding complexity as the H.264.
A little more complex than the H.264.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no need to add complexity to the decoder, the current decoding procedure is very common so that it can fit many advanced encoder algorithms that can give more coding efficiency.
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Old 14th August 2013, 02:26   #18  |  Link
schweinsz
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That is of coz assuming NGIV doesn't happen in 1-2 years. And i like to be proven wrong on this one.
It can not last so much time. Perhaps in several month, I can get it work with similar coding efficiency with the H.265.
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Old 22nd November 2013, 08:31   #19  |  Link
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Several months already passed ... ... at least one season. How are you progressing? Steadily, I hope.

And how do you rate the efforts of Xiph Daala, provided you know a little more than one can read on their Wiki page?
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Old 13th May 2014, 08:59   #20  |  Link
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Another half year passed. I hope you are still optimistic.
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