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Old 12th February 2002, 22:19   #1  |  Link
TonyT
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Jerky Picture



I have an Asus p4 1.5 system with Plextor drives and a scsi 160 subsystem. Works great normally. I used DVD2SVCD 1.6 to rip a movie and convert it to svcd which seemed to work fine after like 14 hours of processing. The only problem is that on my Apex 1500 the playback is jerky. Not every second or frame, but every now and then it jerks just a little. Almost like it is trying to keep up. I used default settings. I used smart ripper for the initial ripping. The title is Tatiana.
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Old 12th February 2002, 22:46   #2  |  Link
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Hi TonyT,

welcome to the forum. How fast did you burn your SVCDs? (Read the Newbie FAQ and the Official dvd2svcd Q&A if not already done on that)

If i remember correctly the Apex plays SVCDs just fine so it must be the media used, the burn speed or a too high bitrate setting within dvd2svcd.

So report back on that for further help.

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Old 12th February 2002, 22:55   #3  |  Link
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speed was

I tried first at 12x, then 4x. I tried both the cheaper yellow media then the true green from the olden days (I save a small stash for special occasions).

Plays fine on the computer with PowerDVD 4.

I am suspecting the bitrate as well.

I have changed max to 2200 and min to 250 with maximum average at 2200.

Please understand that I barely know what that means and I am flying somewhat blind.

That said, I am extremely familiar with VCD formats, conversion of avi files to mpeg 1, burners and computers. But SVCDs are a lot more complex than I thought. MPEG2 I am new to.
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Old 12th February 2002, 23:04   #4  |  Link
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just curiosity: what software used to burn?
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Old 12th February 2002, 23:14   #5  |  Link
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Hi again,

are you using the latest build of dvd2svcd (1.0.6 Build 4)? With this version some reported that the new default bitrate settings caused a little stuttering so they lowered them a little bit.

I would not go too low with the Max (try 2450), leave Min at 300 and use 2250 for Max avg - just a guess (always worked for me).

You will loose some quality if going to low with the bitrates. If playback is jerky in low motion scenes then perhaps a higher Min setting can help as there are some players that don't like too low bitrates. If playback is jerky in high action scenes (when high bitrate is used) then lowering the Max can help - so best try out with a CD-RW if your player plays them. And i would recommend to only burn at max 4x speed first as going higher with it can also end up in jerky playback (see Q46 in Official Q&A).

Greetings,
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Old 13th February 2002, 03:24   #6  |  Link
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Mozart

I am using CDRWIN 3.8e . I have never had problems playing svcds from other parties, such as Buffy and Angel. Only the ones I make


I am using 1.06 build 4. I actually do look forward to making a donation (albeit a modest one) because the software seems great. Just want to have at elast one SVCD produced without the stuttering of the video.

I lowered the bitrate to 2400 for max, left min at 300, and set
max avg at 2230. It is running now.

How were the default bitrate settings different in the previous versions?

Gerti67, thanks a lot for your suggestions and comments.
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Old 13th February 2002, 08:30   #7  |  Link
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The defaults were just a little lower. MAX was at 2498 I believe.
They have changed a couple of times over the builds.

Not a huge deal if you understand enough to lower them.

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Old 13th February 2002, 13:06   #8  |  Link
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Try download Bitrate viewer and see to MPG, what are real bitrates MAX and average. ( http://tecoltd.com ).

I have problem with picture too - but my picture time to time stops for time of some frames. F.eg. it seems, as one frames is displayed 4-6x ( example, how my movie is displayed: frames: 1 2 3 4 5 5 5 5 5 10 11 12 ... Bud sound is still perfectly in this moment, very often it is in slow scenes, where almost is not changes.

I tried all possible and unpossible.

When I'm using onepass VBR, it is better diagram of bitrate in Bitrate Viewer, than diagram with 4pass VBR. On 4 pases is bitrate very often changed, than in onepass VBR.
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Old 14th February 2002, 02:05   #9  |  Link
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update

Downloaded bitrate viewer, ran on it on my latest attempt.

By the way, using max 2200, min 300, max avg 2000 made the movie a lot less junmpy. Actually, if there was no solid white colors in the frame it looked normal. Scenes where people were wearing white clothing were noticeably jerky. Even when you had two people side by side, one in white, one in dark colors, only the one in white was jerky when moving! Not as bad as before, but noticeable.

Bitrate viewer gave me the following numbers:

current : 1766, peak : 2180, average 1580.

Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 2200000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Linear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressive

help!
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Old 14th February 2002, 02:24   #10  |  Link
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update 2

I ran the viewer on a SCVD that looks and run perfect. The bitrate is actually higher(!) but there are diffeences in frames, dct precision etc:

SVCD: Shrek cd 1

Bitrate peak : 2999
current: 2526
Average: 2246

Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 25.00
Nom. bitrate: 2520000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 56
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 8
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: ZigZag
Frame type: Progressiv

Again, this one runs perfect!!! (not made by me, of course)
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Old 14th February 2002, 02:35   #11  |  Link
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Hi TonyT,

just another guess, i wonder if you have one of those "field order" problems with your DVD. See the following thread for some info on it:

http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread...threadid=14090

As you already downloaded Bitrate Viewer try the following - start Bitrate Viewer and load one of the *.vob files of the DVD you try to convert into it (but not the first one) have a look at the status window and see what is written after "Field topfirst:" - is it "Yes" or "No"? If it's "No" then you have to unselect "Upper field first" in dvd2svcd's "Encoder" tab.

See if this works (if CCE topfield bug is not with your system) - perhaps only doing some chapters to save time.

Just a guess,
gerti67
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Old 14th February 2002, 02:46   #12  |  Link
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Answer is "YES"

These are the readings form the vob file:

Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 8500000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 9
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: Yes
DCT type: Field
Quantscale: Linear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Interlaced
Notes:


BY the way, anotehr SVCD that is playing perfect is the LOTR (a friend let me watch it). Actually, all SVCDs I play except the ones I make play 100% perfect.

Here are the readings:

Bitrate current: 2657
Peak: 3118
Average: 2644

Aspect ratio: 4:3 Generic
Framerate: 29.97
Nom. bitrate: 2450000 Bit/Sec
VBV buffer size: 112
Constrained param. flag: No
Chroma format: 4:2:0
DCT precision: 10
Pic. structure: Frame
Field topfirst: No
DCT type: Frame
Quantscale: Nonlinear
Scan type: Alternate
Frame type: Progressive
Notes:
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Old 14th February 2002, 02:59   #13  |  Link
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Hi TonyT,

from the info you gave, the main difference with the SVCDs that you say run perfectly on your standalone and the one that is jerky is that the others are using a "Nonlinear quantizer scale" and the higher bitrates for sure. (I always use Nonlinear quantizer scale myself without any problems as CCE documentation says it is better for MPEG2.)

So you could try to unselect the "Linear quantizer scale" checkbox in "Encoder" tab and try if this helps with your player (who knows) and as it seems you are doing a 4:3 DVD (which needs higher bitrates than 16:9 with 2.35:1 for example) just increase the Max and the Max avg. bitrate as the ones from your friend played just fine on your standalone with those high bitrates.

Greetings,
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Old 14th February 2002, 03:47   #14  |  Link
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will try it now, but...

Is there a way to enocde just one vob file or do I have to wait 12 hours again? I finally calcualted that it takes my system 12 hours for the two hur dvd. The program only seems to accept the ifo file which loads all.
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Old 14th February 2002, 03:55   #15  |  Link
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Hi again,

just use dvd2svcd's internal routines in "DVD Rip" tab then load the correct *.ifo file in "Conversion" tab. Now the length of the movie will show in "Movie length" pulldown box. And now comes - click on it and you will see a little window appearing titled "Select chapters". Now only choose some chapters and hit the "Go" button.

Greetings,
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Old 14th February 2002, 06:24   #16  |  Link
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did that...

Was able to encode just one scene, which is cool. I unchecked Linear Quantizer Scale. Whenever there is action in the movie movement is still jerky. Very annoying.
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Old 14th February 2002, 07:07   #17  |  Link
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1) When is original DVD Quantscale: nonlinear , is better set in DVD2SVCD Linear or no ?

2) When is DVD Scantype: Alternate, is better uncheck ZigZag in DVD2SVCD ?
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Old 14th February 2002, 12:16   #18  |  Link
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Hi TonyT,

have you already tried to burn on a different brand of CD-R media for example on one of those which played fine on your standalone (the one's from your friends)? - Some standalones don't like some brands and that results in jerky movement in high action scene when the bitrate is high.

And in addition try to use a different burning program (e.g. Nero 5.5.7.2, vcdeasy, ...).

Greetings,
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Old 14th February 2002, 14:56   #19  |  Link
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well...

Ya, I also used true green media from the olden days, Phthalocyanine dye on a gold reflective layer for a true green color. As a technician I favored them because even 2x cd roms could read the cds I would burn with drivers, etc. The same drives were unable to read gold or blue cds due to laser differences. The true green cds worked on all. In any case, I think I found the problem.

I saw a thread somewhere here that mentioned that in some dvds you have to uncheck the "upper field first" box. Doing so resulted in my sample chapter playing perfect. I am running the full movie now and will report back.

Perhaps we can start a database of DVDs with the best settings to use to back it up?

It would save us all a lot of time.
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Old 14th February 2002, 15:35   #20  |  Link
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Hi TonyT,

Quote:
In any case, I think I found the problem.
glad to hear that. But i already mentioned the "field order" issue above. I'm just curious, didn't you really use the first vob file of your vobs with Bitrate Viewer? Because it should have shown "No" then in "Field topfirst:" - you can't use the first vob file to check it with Bitrate Viewer because the intros of the movie companies usually are of a different type than the movie itself so it could show "Yes" and the main movie is coded with bottom-field-first order instead (you could try the rest of the vobs too). I'm just asking as i also use Bitrate Viewer to verify such things and it will be getting some kind of useless if it shows just wrong informations.

Greetings,
gerti67
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Last edited by gerti67; 14th February 2002 at 15:39.
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