Resizing question

madhatter300871 · 31st December 2012, 18:10

Hi all.

I have a HD television, native resolution 1366x768. The HDMI input accepts 1920x1080p, 1366x768, 1280x720 input, amongst other resolutions.

The 1080p resolution accepts 60hz, 50hz, 25hz and 24hz. The other resolutions only accepts 50hz and 60hz. The PC input will no doubt accept a much wider selection, but I don't want to use VGA.

So my question about resizing is :-

Lets assume my movie has a resolution of 720x576. If I configure my desktop to be 1920x1080 does my movie get rescaled twice. i.e upscaled by the PC to 1920x1080 then downscaled by the TV to 1366x768.

Thanks in advance.

fairchild · 1st January 2013, 07:11

Yes, it would get resized twice. I would just set your desktop to your native display resolution (in your case being 1366x768) and have your video player/renderer handle the resizing.

Qaq · 1st January 2013, 09:56

What is worse - double resizing or 24 video on 60 display? I'm not so sure.
OP can set display to 720p50 and speedup 720p24 movies to 50/2 with ReClock. Yep, it will be 4% faster but PQ and smoothness will be perfect. IMO worth to try.

dukey · 1st January 2013, 17:39

What fairchild said. Set your desktop to your displays native resolution.

madhatter300871 · 2nd January 2013, 00:20

Thanks for the answers.

I do actually use reclock on my main setup, which uses a 720p projector with 107" screen. I speedup all my movies to 25fps, the increase in audio pitch is nothing I am not used to; living in PAL land. I do this because the projector will not accept 24Hz refresh rate.

My TV does accept 24Hz in 1080p mode and I wanted to try it out. However, 23.976 played back on a 24Hz display still display motion judder and so I do still use reclock to speed up to 24fps. The blurays that I have that are actually in 24p play flawlessly, but there don't seem to be that many.

Anyway, I have tinkered around with the different options and I think I agree with you folks. Native resolution and speed up to 25fps.

Thanks for the feedback.

madhatter300871 · 2nd January 2013, 22:02

Hmm

Turns out my 1366x768 (native resolution) only accepts 60Hz input. I bloody hate technology sometimes !!!

Oh well, 1080p24 is better than 768@60, as I seem to have a pair of those eyes that can see the motion judder.

Thanks for the interest anyway.

Mangix · 2nd January 2013, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhatter300871

Hmm

Turns out my 1366x768 (native resolution) only accepts 60Hz input. I bloody hate technology sometimes !!!

Oh well, 1080p24 is better than 768@60, as I seem to have a pair of those eyes that can see the motion judder.

Thanks for the interest anyway.

modify the EDID. I had luck doing so with a 1366x768 laptop screen and got it to 100Hz.

edit: https://www.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=166801

the pixel clock patcher I think is optional for that resolution.

pirlouy · 2nd January 2013, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by madhatter300871

Oh well, 1080p24 is better than 768@60, as I seem to have a pair of those eyes that can see the motion judder.

There's something wrong.
If you're TV is 720p (or 768p), I don't think Windows will let you use a 1080p resolution.

If you send a 1080p24 resolution, internally, there's a downscale, and if your TV does not accept 768p24 or 720p24, I don't think your 1080p24 will be changed in 768p24 (720p24).

But maybe I don't know at all this kind of TV...

madhatter300871 · 3rd January 2013, 22:16

My TV is a HD TV, with a native resolution of 1366x768 (I would call this HD ready).

Windows will allow a 1920x1080p input to the TV, and in fact the Nvidia control panel suggests that this is the default. When I do set it to 1080p the text on screen is badly aliased and small, so I know 1080p is working.

(My projector has a native resolution of 1280x720 and this also accepts a 1080p input.)

My problem isn't one of resolution per say, I beleive that the TV is telling the Nvidia driver what refresh rates can be used at what resolutions, probably in the EDID data (right ?)

I'm just about to check out the pixel clock patcher .....

madhatter300871 · 3rd January 2013, 23:13

When I run the Nvidia pixel clock patcher I get an error message :

"Failed to open file for reading".

I have done some googling but can't get it to run. Any ideas ?

Mangix · 4th January 2013, 05:21

the pixel clock patcher is useless for your needs.

If I am reading this correctly, you want higher refresh rate in 1366x768 in which case the Custom Resolution Utility is what you need.

If on the other hand you want 1080p at a higher refresh rate, know that you can do up to 71Hz 1080p without patching the drivers to remove the pixel clock limit.

edit: "Include extension block" typically must be unchecked to make any changes. Know that this will remove audio capability from your TV.

leeperry · 4th January 2013, 06:15

yeah, 720p displays are usually useless because they will only support 24Hz in 1080p...and the downscale will be as ugly as it gets.

you might try 48Hz maybe? otherwise your only option is 24@25Hz in Reclock or to get a native 1080p TV I'm afraid.

madhatter300871 · 4th January 2013, 12:04

I'm not sure that's strictly true. I have a 720p projector and a 768 TV, both accept 50Hz and 60Hz in 1080p mode, the TV also accepts 24Hz and 25Hz. Both, when in 50Hz mode (using reclock to speed up) play back the video very smoothly and judder free. The TV, when in 24Hz mode (using reclock to speed up) plays back the video very smoothly and judder free

Yes, I do want a different refresh rate in 1366x768 mode. However, I don't want a higher rate I want a lower rate. At the moment, 1366x768 only supports 60Hz, I want it to at least support 50Hz and hopefully support 24Hz as well.

I did use the custom resolution utility but, alas, I have no idea how to use it, so I have some questions :-

1. Do I add a detailed resolution or a standard resolution ?
2. What are the established resolutions and what do I do with them, if anything ?
3. Standard resolutions has a drop down box containing many resolutions; 1366x768 is not one of them.
4. Do I export my new resolutions ?
5. If yes, what do I do with the exported resolutions ?

Thanks for your help.

Mangix · 4th January 2013, 23:19

1. detailed. also make sure to select "Automatic - Best for LCD" this will lower the pixel clock by a lot as compared to the other option.
2. uncheck them. I have all unchecked. Established timings are legacy timings designed for CRTs.
3. forget about standard resolutions.
4. can't export just yet. the tool automatically applies everything in the registry.

hello_hello · 5th January 2013, 00:40

TVs generally support the all standard TV/HDMI resolutions for input. ie 1080p, 720p, 576p and 480p (well PAL TVs do but I don't know if NTSC TVs necessarily support 576p) They should support (if it's PAL) 50/60hz at both 1080p and 720p. I know that's not the TV's native resolution but 720p would probably be as close as you'll get. Any other resolutions aside from those are generally considered PC resolutions and they're probably all fixed at 60Hz. The VGA input is probably fixed at 60hz too. From memory my other half's 1366x768 TV lets you change VGA refresh rates but they don't use the whole screen.

If 1280x720 won't let you select 50hz for a refresh rate using Windows Display Properties try the TV resolutions under "change display resolution" in the Nvidia control panel. 720p should let you select either 50 or 60 hz. If you were watching video using another HDMI device it'd be connecting at 720p or 1080p anyway.

I know you mentioned 24hz, 25hz and maybe 30hz as alternative refresh rates. I think you'll find if they only apply to 1080p they're actually interlaced inputs, not progressive. I experimented with using 25hz but found when playing progressive video it didn't look as smooth. If using 24hz or 25hz you find moving windows across the display causes them to "lean" a little as they move or if mouse movement seems more erratic then they'll be interlaced refresh rates.

Many TVs just use the standard HDMI resolutions at 50/60hz or the PC resolutions at 60hz and that's it. Some TVs may be more versatile especially if they have a true 1080/24p mode but I'd be kind of surprised if your TV lets you stay from the standard TV/PC resolutions. Mine won't.
And on the other hand even if a TV supports a multitude of PC input resolutions to be sociable, there's nothing to say it won't rescale some of them to something more "standard" internally. It'd probably explain why sometimes things seem illogical, such as a 1366x768 TV capable of refreshing at 50hz which doesn't support 1366x768 at 50hz as an input refresh rate.

madhatter300871 · 5th January 2013, 12:18

Mangix, thanks for the explanation. I did as you said and still no joy. It doesn't work for my setup. It seems my TV will just not accept anything other than 60Hz at 1366x768 resolution.

hello_hello, thanks for your explanation. I did a little more checking and you are right, 24/25/30Hz are all interlaced inputs. Oddly, the windows panel tells me this, the Nvidia control panel does not, that's how I missed it. I have settled on watching all my movies at 50Hz. It's not actually a problem as this is normal for me, living in PAL land, I just wanted to try my best to get the TV working at 24Hz in it's native resolution (you wouldn't think this was too much to ask would you !!).

I use reclock to do the re-sampling and have set the max speedup to 5% so that it doesn't need to be set manually each time. I use MadVR as the renderer and have set 720p50 and 1080p50 as allowed resolutions. A quick test shows that it does select 720p or 1080p according to the movie resolution.

Two more questions if I may :-

1. Do you know at what resolution MadVR will decide to use 1080p as opposed to 720p ?

2. Just for my own understanding. I fully understand the concept of interlaced video and how it was used with CRT televisions, but what does a digital LCD panel do with an interlaced input ? If the source video is not interlaced (I don't own much interlaced material these days) what is the effect of watching it on a TV with interlaced input ? I have tried this out and can't really see any negative effects on screen. If I play interlaced material (true interlaced material with each frame consisting of fields from alternative frames) using the 24Hz interlaced input, will the TV perform de-interlacing ? I am just wondering why the TV doesn't allow for 24/25/30Hz progressive.

hello_hello · 5th January 2013, 18:36

I don't use MadVR so I can't help you there.

For me, watching progressive video while using an interlaced input seemed to reduce the quality a bit. Not for still images, but when it came to motion it seemed to a little.

As far as what does the de-interlacing.... I can only tell you the way I think it works for my setup. MPC-HC and ffdshow.
MPC-HC's internal mpeg2 decoder does de-interlacing but unless I'm missing something it's horrible, so I disable the internal decoder, which means MPC-HC can't de-interlace it. With ffdshow decoding mpeg2 I use it's de-interlacing filter, generally de-interlacing with Yadif. With the de-interlacing filter disabled ffdshow has an option in it's output section to pass the interlaced flag along to the next process in the chain. With that option disabled nothing gets de-interlaced even when using an interlaced input. With the interlaced info being passed on, the video card de-interlaces if the connection is progressive, if it's an interlaced connection I'd assume the TV does it.

I haven't done much comparing but the TV and video card both seem to de-interlace the same (assuming the above is correct). I can't see any major difference. I think both de-interlace good quality video well but I did try some old interlaced 4:3 DVD video at one stage which was almost VHS quality and for those, Yadif did a better job. Not so many jagged edges or de-interlacing lines in motion.

I may have uploaded these samples for you when we were discussing this subject a while back (I might have but I can't remember). You said using 25fps/50Hz with your projector or TV looks pretty smooth to you. It's way better than a mismatched frame/refresh rate for me too, but even 25fps/50Hz can look jittery at times to me. The "film strobe" effect, if that's the right name for it, can be pretty noticeable. There's a shot in the samples where the camera pans about 10 seconds in where it's really bad due to the contrast. At least it looks terrible to me, even using my CRT PC monitor.. The second sample is the same clip converted to 50fps using InterFrame (Avisynth plugin). The difference is huge on my TV. Even the close-up of the faces at the end where the camera bobs up and down looks totally different to me. In fact I've become so used to jittery motion that when it's actually smooth it almost freaks me out a little until I get used to it. 25 v 50.zip (link valid for 1 week)

I've no idea why TVs don't allow 24/25Hz progressive (unless they have a film mode, I guess). I'm pretty sure it's not part of the standard TV/HDMI spec so maybe there's some sort of cost/design reason. I don't really know.

leeperry · 5th January 2013, 21:22

again and again, try 48Hz as this might save your day if you're lucky....and if you wanna push it try 48.5/49/49.5 until you can find the lowest it would support and then Reclock will change the playback speed anyway

Qaq · 6th January 2013, 01:51

BTW, why not try SVP? 720p24(25) > 720p60

hello_hello · 6th January 2013, 22:22

Thinking about it, I wonder if 25fps/50Hz is going to look any different to 25fps/25Hz anyway. The frames are still being displayed at the same speed. Sure for a 50hz refresh rate the display refreshes twice per frame, but even if it only refreshes once I'm not sure why it'd look different, because at 50Hz the image is the same every second time it refreshes. Maybe that's why TVs don't support 24p unless they have a film mode, as maybe then it really only eliminates the NTSC judder and a 25Hz refresh rate for PAL wouldn't actually achieve anything.

My TV doesn't have a film (24p) mode and won't let me use 25Hz progressive, so I can't compare it to 50Hz to see if it would actually look any different at 25fps. I have tried speeding 25fps video up to 50fps though, and while naturally it looks much smoother (albeit at twice the speed) I suspect that's only because the frame rate has doubled and it has little or nothing to do with with the frame/refresh rate ratio being 1:1 instead of 1:2.

31st December 2012, 18:10	#1 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	Resizing question Hi all. I have a HD television, native resolution 1366x768. The HDMI input accepts 1920x1080p, 1366x768, 1280x720 input, amongst other resolutions. The 1080p resolution accepts 60hz, 50hz, 25hz and 24hz. The other resolutions only accepts 50hz and 60hz. The PC input will no doubt accept a much wider selection, but I don't want to use VGA. So my question about resizing is :- Lets assume my movie has a resolution of 720x576. If I configure my desktop to be 1920x1080 does my movie get rescaled twice. i.e upscaled by the PC to 1920x1080 then downscaled by the TV to 1366x768. Thanks in advance.

1st January 2013, 07:11	#2 \| Link
fairchild Registered User Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 321	Yes, it would get resized twice. I would just set your desktop to your native display resolution (in your case being 1366x768) and have your video player/renderer handle the resizing. __________________ MPC-HC/MPC-BE, Lav Filters, MadVR CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600, Video: AMD Radeon RX Vega 56 -> TCL S405 55", Audio: Audio-Technica M50S

5th January 2013, 18:36	#17 \| Link
hello_hello Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,829	I don't use MadVR so I can't help you there. For me, watching progressive video while using an interlaced input seemed to reduce the quality a bit. Not for still images, but when it came to motion it seemed to a little. As far as what does the de-interlacing.... I can only tell you the way I think it works for my setup. MPC-HC and ffdshow. MPC-HC's internal mpeg2 decoder does de-interlacing but unless I'm missing something it's horrible, so I disable the internal decoder, which means MPC-HC can't de-interlace it. With ffdshow decoding mpeg2 I use it's de-interlacing filter, generally de-interlacing with Yadif. With the de-interlacing filter disabled ffdshow has an option in it's output section to pass the interlaced flag along to the next process in the chain. With that option disabled nothing gets de-interlaced even when using an interlaced input. With the interlaced info being passed on, the video card de-interlaces if the connection is progressive, if it's an interlaced connection I'd assume the TV does it. I haven't done much comparing but the TV and video card both seem to de-interlace the same (assuming the above is correct). I can't see any major difference. I think both de-interlace good quality video well but I did try some old interlaced 4:3 DVD video at one stage which was almost VHS quality and for those, Yadif did a better job. Not so many jagged edges or de-interlacing lines in motion. I may have uploaded these samples for you when we were discussing this subject a while back (I might have but I can't remember). You said using 25fps/50Hz with your projector or TV looks pretty smooth to you. It's way better than a mismatched frame/refresh rate for me too, but even 25fps/50Hz can look jittery at times to me. The "film strobe" effect, if that's the right name for it, can be pretty noticeable. There's a shot in the samples where the camera pans about 10 seconds in where it's really bad due to the contrast. At least it looks terrible to me, even using my CRT PC monitor.. The second sample is the same clip converted to 50fps using InterFrame (Avisynth plugin). The difference is huge on my TV. Even the close-up of the faces at the end where the camera bobs up and down looks totally different to me. In fact I've become so used to jittery motion that when it's actually smooth it almost freaks me out a little until I get used to it. 25 v 50.zip (link valid for 1 week) I've no idea why TVs don't allow 24/25Hz progressive (unless they have a film mode, I guess). I'm pretty sure it's not part of the standard TV/HDMI spec so maybe there's some sort of cost/design reason. I don't really know. Last edited by hello_hello; 7th January 2013 at 11:43.

5th January 2013, 21:22	#18 \| Link
leeperry Kid for Today Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,477	again and again, try 48Hz as this might save your day if you're lucky....and if you wanna push it try 48.5/49/49.5 until you can find the lowest it would support and then Reclock will change the playback speed anyway Last edited by leeperry; 5th January 2013 at 21:28.

1st January 2013, 09:56	#3 \| Link
Qaq AV heretic Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 422	What is worse - double resizing or 24 video on 60 display? I'm not so sure. OP can set display to 720p50 and speedup 720p24 movies to 50/2 with ReClock. Yep, it will be 4% faster but PQ and smoothness will be perfect. IMO worth to try.

1st January 2013, 17:39	#4 \| Link
dukey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 560	What fairchild said. Set your desktop to your displays native resolution.

2nd January 2013, 00:20	#5 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	Thanks for the answers. I do actually use reclock on my main setup, which uses a 720p projector with 107" screen. I speedup all my movies to 25fps, the increase in audio pitch is nothing I am not used to; living in PAL land. I do this because the projector will not accept 24Hz refresh rate. My TV does accept 24Hz in 1080p mode and I wanted to try it out. However, 23.976 played back on a 24Hz display still display motion judder and so I do still use reclock to speed up to 24fps. The blurays that I have that are actually in 24p play flawlessly, but there don't seem to be that many. Anyway, I have tinkered around with the different options and I think I agree with you folks. Native resolution and speed up to 25fps. Thanks for the feedback.

2nd January 2013, 22:02	#6 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	Hmm Turns out my 1366x768 (native resolution) only accepts 60Hz input. I bloody hate technology sometimes !!! Oh well, 1080p24 is better than 768@60, as I seem to have a pair of those eyes that can see the motion judder. Thanks for the interest anyway.

3rd January 2013, 22:16	#9 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	My TV is a HD TV, with a native resolution of 1366x768 (I would call this HD ready). Windows will allow a 1920x1080p input to the TV, and in fact the Nvidia control panel suggests that this is the default. When I do set it to 1080p the text on screen is badly aliased and small, so I know 1080p is working. (My projector has a native resolution of 1280x720 and this also accepts a 1080p input.) My problem isn't one of resolution per say, I beleive that the TV is telling the Nvidia driver what refresh rates can be used at what resolutions, probably in the EDID data (right ?) I'm just about to check out the pixel clock patcher .....

3rd January 2013, 23:13	#10 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	When I run the Nvidia pixel clock patcher I get an error message : "Failed to open file for reading". I have done some googling but can't get it to run. Any ideas ?

4th January 2013, 05:21	#11 \| Link
Mangix Audiophile Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 353	the pixel clock patcher is useless for your needs. If I am reading this correctly, you want higher refresh rate in 1366x768 in which case the Custom Resolution Utility is what you need. If on the other hand you want 1080p at a higher refresh rate, know that you can do up to 71Hz 1080p without patching the drivers to remove the pixel clock limit. edit: "Include extension block" typically must be unchecked to make any changes. Know that this will remove audio capability from your TV.

4th January 2013, 06:15	#12 \| Link
leeperry Kid for Today Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,477	yeah, 720p displays are usually useless because they will only support 24Hz in 1080p...and the downscale will be as ugly as it gets. you might try 48Hz maybe? otherwise your only option is 24@25Hz in Reclock or to get a native 1080p TV I'm afraid.

4th January 2013, 12:04	#13 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	I'm not sure that's strictly true. I have a 720p projector and a 768 TV, both accept 50Hz and 60Hz in 1080p mode, the TV also accepts 24Hz and 25Hz. Both, when in 50Hz mode (using reclock to speed up) play back the video very smoothly and judder free. The TV, when in 24Hz mode (using reclock to speed up) plays back the video very smoothly and judder free Yes, I do want a different refresh rate in 1366x768 mode. However, I don't want a higher rate I want a lower rate. At the moment, 1366x768 only supports 60Hz, I want it to at least support 50Hz and hopefully support 24Hz as well. I did use the custom resolution utility but, alas, I have no idea how to use it, so I have some questions :- 1. Do I add a detailed resolution or a standard resolution ? 2. What are the established resolutions and what do I do with them, if anything ? 3. Standard resolutions has a drop down box containing many resolutions; 1366x768 is not one of them. 4. Do I export my new resolutions ? 5. If yes, what do I do with the exported resolutions ? Thanks for your help.

4th January 2013, 23:19	#14 \| Link
Mangix Audiophile Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 353	1. detailed. also make sure to select "Automatic - Best for LCD" this will lower the pixel clock by a lot as compared to the other option. 2. uncheck them. I have all unchecked. Established timings are legacy timings designed for CRTs. 3. forget about standard resolutions. 4. can't export just yet. the tool automatically applies everything in the registry.

5th January 2013, 00:40	#15 \| Link
hello_hello Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,829	TVs generally support the all standard TV/HDMI resolutions for input. ie 1080p, 720p, 576p and 480p (well PAL TVs do but I don't know if NTSC TVs necessarily support 576p) They should support (if it's PAL) 50/60hz at both 1080p and 720p. I know that's not the TV's native resolution but 720p would probably be as close as you'll get. Any other resolutions aside from those are generally considered PC resolutions and they're probably all fixed at 60Hz. The VGA input is probably fixed at 60hz too. From memory my other half's 1366x768 TV lets you change VGA refresh rates but they don't use the whole screen. If 1280x720 won't let you select 50hz for a refresh rate using Windows Display Properties try the TV resolutions under "change display resolution" in the Nvidia control panel. 720p should let you select either 50 or 60 hz. If you were watching video using another HDMI device it'd be connecting at 720p or 1080p anyway. I know you mentioned 24hz, 25hz and maybe 30hz as alternative refresh rates. I think you'll find if they only apply to 1080p they're actually interlaced inputs, not progressive. I experimented with using 25hz but found when playing progressive video it didn't look as smooth. If using 24hz or 25hz you find moving windows across the display causes them to "lean" a little as they move or if mouse movement seems more erratic then they'll be interlaced refresh rates. Many TVs just use the standard HDMI resolutions at 50/60hz or the PC resolutions at 60hz and that's it. Some TVs may be more versatile especially if they have a true 1080/24p mode but I'd be kind of surprised if your TV lets you stay from the standard TV/PC resolutions. Mine won't. And on the other hand even if a TV supports a multitude of PC input resolutions to be sociable, there's nothing to say it won't rescale some of them to something more "standard" internally. It'd probably explain why sometimes things seem illogical, such as a 1366x768 TV capable of refreshing at 50hz which doesn't support 1366x768 at 50hz as an input refresh rate.

5th January 2013, 12:18	#16 \| Link
madhatter300871 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 255	Mangix, thanks for the explanation. I did as you said and still no joy. It doesn't work for my setup. It seems my TV will just not accept anything other than 60Hz at 1366x768 resolution. hello_hello, thanks for your explanation. I did a little more checking and you are right, 24/25/30Hz are all interlaced inputs. Oddly, the windows panel tells me this, the Nvidia control panel does not, that's how I missed it. I have settled on watching all my movies at 50Hz. It's not actually a problem as this is normal for me, living in PAL land, I just wanted to try my best to get the TV working at 24Hz in it's native resolution (you wouldn't think this was too much to ask would you !!). I use reclock to do the re-sampling and have set the max speedup to 5% so that it doesn't need to be set manually each time. I use MadVR as the renderer and have set 720p50 and 1080p50 as allowed resolutions. A quick test shows that it does select 720p or 1080p according to the movie resolution. Two more questions if I may :- 1. Do you know at what resolution MadVR will decide to use 1080p as opposed to 720p ? 2. Just for my own understanding. I fully understand the concept of interlaced video and how it was used with CRT televisions, but what does a digital LCD panel do with an interlaced input ? If the source video is not interlaced (I don't own much interlaced material these days) what is the effect of watching it on a TV with interlaced input ? I have tried this out and can't really see any negative effects on screen. If I play interlaced material (true interlaced material with each frame consisting of fields from alternative frames) using the 24Hz interlaced input, will the TV perform de-interlacing ? I am just wondering why the TV doesn't allow for 24/25/30Hz progressive.

6th January 2013, 01:51	#19 \| Link
Qaq AV heretic Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 422	BTW, why not try SVP? 720p24(25) > 720p60

6th January 2013, 22:22	#20 \| Link
hello_hello Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4,829	Thinking about it, I wonder if 25fps/50Hz is going to look any different to 25fps/25Hz anyway. The frames are still being displayed at the same speed. Sure for a 50hz refresh rate the display refreshes twice per frame, but even if it only refreshes once I'm not sure why it'd look different, because at 50Hz the image is the same every second time it refreshes. Maybe that's why TVs don't support 24p unless they have a film mode, as maybe then it really only eliminates the NTSC judder and a 25Hz refresh rate for PAL wouldn't actually achieve anything. My TV doesn't have a film (24p) mode and won't let me use 25Hz progressive, so I can't compare it to 50Hz to see if it would actually look any different at 25fps. I have tried speeding 25fps video up to 50fps though, and while naturally it looks much smoother (albeit at twice the speed) I suspect that's only because the frame rate has doubled and it has little or nothing to do with with the frame/refresh rate ratio being 1:1 instead of 1:2.