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Old 17th March 2012, 17:43   #1  |  Link
AceRimmer667
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anamorphic widescreen dvds wont show correctly on widescreen tv

I have old anamorphic widescreen dvds that play and show video on my widescreen laptop correctly, but do not display correctly on my tv (also widescreen). On the tv, black bars are added, and cut off what should be shown to the left and right, as if my movies were originally 4:3, when they are not. So I am wondering if there is an easy converter out there for each dvd, so that these movies will display correctly and show everything on a widescreen tv (so that the dvd will no longer be anamorphic)? At first I thought a simple ripping program might work, but I have been told the anamorphic data would still be added, and I will have to convert from one dvd type to another for my tv to display it right.

Any recommended easy programs, if this is true? thanks
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Old 17th March 2012, 19:28   #2  |  Link
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Is the picture also squished vertically?
I think most TVs have a setting to force a 16:9 aspect ratio. While I can't say I've messed with it, I think the setting in my TV is named "auto wide".

If not it should be possible to rip the DVDs and change the aspect ratio in the process. I think sometimes for reasons I don't understand it's the player which gets it wrong (I've had anamorphic DVDs display as 4:3 on the PC a few times). As I generally don't create DVDs I couldn't explain the process, but if you can't manually force 16:9 using the TV's settings, I'm sure someone clever will come along....
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Old 18th March 2012, 00:36   #3  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRimmer667 View Post
On the tv, black bars are added, and cut off what should be shown to the left and right, as if my movies were originally 4:3, when they are not.
Left + right cut off? That sounds a lot like your DVD-Player is in "Pan & Scan" mode which is for 4:3 TVs only. Check the aspect setting of your DVD-Player.
Most players have these 3 options:

• 4:3 Letterbox
• 4:3 Pan & Scan
• 16:9

The tricky thing is, although obviously only 16:9 setting should be used with a widescreen TV, using 4:3 LB or 4:3 PS setting may not cause much trouble most of the time. Why? Because many DVD-Players generate a WSS signaling line that tells the TV to automatically zoom the picture that has been letterboxed by the player which is actually playing an anamorphic DVD. To the viewer this looks correct (although there is a vertical resolution loss of course).
Even if you select PS in the player's settings, many anamorphic DVDs do not allow PS because the video needs to be suitable for that so they letterbox anyway.
Until you come across an anamorphic DVD that does allow or even force PS - as soon as this happens, the automatic zooming will no longer work since the picture is not "player-letterboxed" anymore and you get what you described.

The top & bottom bars are probably because the movie is in cinemascope (in other words there are top & bottom bars on any display, it's their size that varies).

Last edited by TheSkiller; 18th March 2012 at 00:43.
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Old 18th March 2012, 07:33   #4  |  Link
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Quote:
I have old anamorphic widescreen dvds that play and show video on my widescreen laptop correctly, but do not display correctly on my tv (also widescreen). On the tv, black bars are added, and cut off what should be shown to the left and right, as if my movies were originally 4:3, when they are not.
your expression old anamorphic widescreen dvds caught my attention really it is newer DVD releases are anamorphic

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articl...ic235demo.html

From your description these DVD's are not anamorphic but letterboxed and authored 4:3 ie widescreen movie fitted into a 4:3 frame. Modern anamorphic DVD's will show correctly on a widescreen 16:9 TV. Previously to making anamorphic releases DVD's were authored to the prevailing majority TV's on sale ie 4:3 and widescreen material like movies that were shot 2.35:1 were fitted into a 4:3 frame hence the postage stamp view on 16:9 displays. On your standalone DVD player there should be a setting to indicate what sort of TV display you have maybe it is set to 4:3?

On a computer depending on the software player this will/can be corrected.


As an example this is a MediaInfo report on the Cinemascope DVD release pre anamorphic

Code:
General
Complete name                            : G:\DVD_Archive\Carousel\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
Format                                   : MPEG-PS
File size                                : 1 024 MiB
Duration                                 : 32mn 50s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 4 360 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Duration                                 : 32mn 49s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 3 825 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 9 342 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.369
Stream size                              : 898 MiB (88%)

Audio
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 32mn 50s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 5 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -632ms
Stream size                              : 105 MiB (10%)

Text
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-32 (0x20)
Format                                   : RLE
Format/Info                              : Run-length encoding
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 32mn 40s
Delay relative to video                  : 6s 680ms

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As you can see this Cinemascope release was released as widescreen fitted into a 4:3 frame by contrast I also have the Anamorphic rrease of Carousel and the vob file details are

Code:
General
Complete name                            : G:\DVD_Archive\Carousel\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
Format                                   : MPEG-PS
File size                                : 1 024 MiB
Duration                                 : 22mn 54s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 6 247 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
Format                                   : MPEG Video
Format version                           : Version 2
Format profile                           : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
Format settings, Matrix                  : Default
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=13
Duration                                 : 22mn 54s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 5 675 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 8 760 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Standard                                 : PAL
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.547
Stream size                              : 930 MiB (91%)

Audio
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 22mn 54s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 5 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : -168ms
Stream size                              : 73.4 MiB (7%)

Text
ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-32 (0x20)
Format                                   : RLE
Format/Info                              : Run-length encoding
Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
Duration                                 : 22mn 51s
Delay relative to video                  : 2s 680ms

Menu
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Last edited by netmask; 18th March 2012 at 08:02.
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Old 19th March 2012, 01:20   #5  |  Link
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thanks for all the replies the dvd box states widescreen, but it was the dvdcompare website which stated one disc as having a picture format of anamorphic, 1.78:1, widescreen, for the region I have. I mentioned 'old' as one particular movie with the same issue was released in 2001, which I suppose was when 4:3 were still the majority of tvs. The dvd player definately sees this movie as 4:3. Thanks for the mediainfo suggestion, I have the info here for one disc, and as in the last post, its 4:3 for all vob files on the dvd.



The entire movie has black bars when played on my standalone player. I can tell instantly that theres a cut off as very large lettering on screen, eg an intro of "Warner Brothers presents" (which shows on the pc with no problems) only shows as "ner Brothers presen" on the standalone. The lettering is correct in size, not squashed or stretched. So it would seem that the problem is with my standalone player not understanding this, as in the last comment. So is the solution to simply find a better/more up to date standalone player that understands similar older 4:3 discs? Setting the movie to 16:9 or auto on the standalone shows the movie with the added black bars.
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Old 19th March 2012, 02:13   #6  |  Link
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What is the brand and model number of your DVD player - it sounds like it might be set to 4:3 in the settings? However what I have done with the couple of widescreen non anamorphic DVD's I have is to rip them to hard disk and then reencode them in ConvertXtoDVD (most DVD authoring programs can do this so you are not restricted to ConvertXtoDVD) setting the authoring parameters as 16:9. This stretches the image horizontally and vertical maintaining correct aspect ratio. If the original movie was shot in 2.35:1 aspect ratio then of course on a 16:9 TV there should be black bars top and bottom.

By re-encoding ie enlarging the the image will result in some quality loss but depending on how important it is to you it at least gives you a backup copy of your DVD that doesn't require re adjusting your DVD player and or TV.

Re MediaInfo if you set it to TEXT you can copy and paste the report in full without having to do a image capture etc...
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Old 19th March 2012, 13:12   #7  |  Link
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my dvd info (not sure how to do the scrolling text)
http://www.mediafire.com/?w9x4x7fxuzcz4i0

I have tried the dvd above on a 4:3 tv - it shows with no bars at all, left,right,top or bottom ..as expected, its unstretched with the far left and right obviously not in view, and takes up the entire screen. Im using a Bush player, model 2028. It can play my other widescreen movies with no issues, black bars only ever top and bottom on a ws tv or non ws. The player has been unlocked with the remote to play imports-and the dvd shown here is one. At first I thought this could add to the player not being able to fully understand the disc, but as you say its prob a case of the player not understanding its a widescreen movie created in 4:3. This is the first time Ive come across one. The only thing im not sure of now is how many players are able to understand/correct my movie for a widescreen tv. If I zoom out on the widescreen tv (using the dvd players remote), I see the movie fully in widescreen perfectly, in a box. Unfortunately it zooms out too far to be watchable. So I blame my player If I 'zoom' out using the dvd players remote on the 4:3 tv, I just see the 4:3 image in a box and nothing else. The ws left and right elements are missing.

Thanks for the tip on convertx, I forgot I may be able to correct it if I can work out the correct settings. I thought the dvd player might be auto setting itself to 4:3 for specific movies of an unusual aspect ratio (the movie above is supposedly 1.78:1 according to dvdcompare instead of the more popular 1.85:1)? The box itself on its case shows a widescreen logo. there are no options to enforce a ratio using the player or on the movie menu, only on the tv-which doesnt help. convertx or a similar problem should work, even if i get a poor quality output. ill just need to make sure I use the right settings, and it doesnt take too long

ps I say movie in the lightest sense after seeing trailers/clips
as one of the imports, from above, is shaolin soccer, hk region 0 comedy
http://dvdcompare.net/comparisons/film.php?fid=2422#1
This is where I got the screen ratio and anamorphic suggestion. thanks for the help

Last edited by AceRimmer667; 19th March 2012 at 13:33.
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Old 19th March 2012, 14:04   #8  |  Link
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Your problem is in the setting of your Bush player. You have been told this three or four times by now. Read its manual and set it accordingly.
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Old 19th March 2012, 14:30   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRimmer667 View Post
I have tried the dvd above on a 4:3 tv - it shows with no bars at all, left,right,top or bottom ..as expected, its unstretched with the far left and right obviously not in view, and takes up the entire screen.
This doesn't make sense. If the movie is hard-letterboxed to a 4:3 frame (and it surely is according to that MediaInfo screenshot), there is no way the left + right can be cut off on a 4:3 TV. Well, exept if you use some sort of zoom on your player which you better don't. Never.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRimmer667 View Post
At first I thought this could add to the player not being able to fully understand the disc, but as you say its prob a case of the player not understanding its a widescreen movie created in 4:3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AceRimmer667 View Post
The only thing im not sure of now is how many players are able to understand/correct my movie for a widescreen tv.
No, the point is, it's not the player that has to deal with a wide image letterboxed to a 4:3 frame that's being displayed tiny on a widescreen TV but the TV and nothing else! It's only the other way around, displaying an anamorphic image on a 4:3 TV, where the DVD-Player takes care of it (the reason is, 4:3 TVs are not required to be able to display anamorphic images, but 16:9 TVs are required to scale and display anything).

You need to disable any zooming on your player which will give you black bars all around the picture. Then you take your TV's remote and switch the display mode from auto to "16:9 zoom". This is all that's needed!
This will display it perfectly sized (no bars at all if the movie is 1.77:1).

However, if your player is upscaling to HD there will be problems with that. First, many TVs do not offer "16:9 zoom" if a HD signal is being displayed, and second, it means that your player is pillarboxing the image (bars on the left + right) so that "16:9 zoom" doesn't work as intended. If either one is the case you're screwed. No way around re-encoding then. Or get another player.

Last edited by TheSkiller; 19th March 2012 at 14:36.
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Old 19th March 2012, 15:42   #10  |  Link
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thanks for the last couple of polite replies. I will assume some people are now at work

1 - The bush dvd player is already set correctly-it does not have a large list of options to set. The screen can be set to auto,16:9 or 4:3. I set it to 16:9 for the widescreen tv, this cuts off the left and right hand side of the image (of what would have been the correct result if it had not).

2 - For the same movie on a 4:3 tv, it shows in full screen. The areas that would normally be visible on a ws movie to the left and right, are cut off. There are no black areas, and the image is not out of proportion. So the dvd on the 4:3 is showing as to be expected, as according to mediainfo, it is actually 4:3, despite stating on the dvd box that it is widescreen. So if it was not stated as widescreen, this result would be acceptable.

3 - The only way to fill out the entire screen (no black left or right) on the widescreen tv, is to zoom.. but the image is therefore cropped.

I am only concerned about the movie showing in full on the widescreen tv with nothing lost to the left or right. The zoom function on the player in either case above, has NOT been touched. This is the only movie with problems. So the problem lies with the player, the TV cutting off the image, or having an incompatibility with one another.

thanks
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Old 19th March 2012, 17:00   #11  |  Link
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Maybe it's how the movie is formatted.

Lots of them are widescreen but already letterboxed (the mattes are present and seen on a 4:3 TV but a 16:9 TV must zoom the image). For a 2.35:1 movie, there will inherently be mattes, as the DVD accepts only 4:3 and 16:9.

I would let it first to AUTO, then I'll try 4:3 (it is sometimes equivalent to FULL).
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Old 20th March 2012, 12:42   #12  |  Link
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So even though the OP has been told this three or four times the problem is with a setting of his Bush player, maybe it's how the movie is formatted afterall?
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Old 20th March 2012, 13:20   #13  |  Link
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I have already tried every combination of both the player and tv display settings-so.. I will try it on another tv and player Its not a copy either-the same movie as in my 7th posts link. thanks.
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Old 20th March 2012, 15:52   #14  |  Link
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Yes, please do that.

There aren't too many ways how the video of a DVD can be formatted.
What came to my mind is: MediaInfo probably reads the DAR flag from the actual MPEG2 video, not from the IFO files. Now this actually does matter because only the IFO files instruct the player what to do. If you'd check the VTS_01_0.IFO using IfoEdit it would give a definitive answer to the question how the DVD is formatted flag-wise and what display modes are allowed/forced if it's an anamorphic video.
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