"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

I simply fail to see the mirage of "being online". Maybe I'm outdated myself too, but has the "online access" some killer advantages that one can accept cinavia or other nasty copy-protection?

Then why get a PS3 at all? I mean, it's a decent blu-ray player, but, there's far better stand alones if all you're looking for is blu-ray playback. Myself, I hardly ever use it for blu-ray. I have an HTPC for that. Nonetheless, many people DO use it as an all purpose machine as that's what it's marketed for. Those people would love to be rid of Cinavia on it, but, at the same time, not lose all the rest of the functionality in the box.

Maybe it's also true what I said before, that PS3 is a game console with BD-playing facility.

It does more than those 2 things alone. I pointed out a few more things that I personally do with mine than just play games and watch Blu-rays. It's quite the versatile little toy, which is probably why Sony focused Cinavia on it first. It is, after all, one of the most widely available blu-ray players. Adding Cinavia to it was easy for Sony, and made sense. (We could argue just how many people do in fact use it as a blu-ray player, but, for the purposes of Cinavia discussion, 100% do. )

My experience with FW and various devices, of all kind, told me that once a nasty feature has been implemented, there's no possibility to "turn back time" - no downgrade possible. I'll be glad to be wrong.

Yea, I agree on this one. Being able to turn the clock back and at least have the option to go back to pre-Cinavia firmware is good for some people. I'm not sure how much else has changed between the time Cinavia was added and the latest firmware, but, if you're playing backups, assumably you've either done a movie only without all the BD-J stuff that typically causes the need for updated players, or maybe you're streaming. So, maybe my concern about using an old version of the player isn't completely valid. So long as you only ever use backups, you're unlikely to run into a compatibilty issue.

Now, ideally, as I said, *I* would like to see the old player hacked into the latest firmware, signed, and released. That would be TRULY useful IMO.

[Ghitulescu]

Originally Posted by xenex

But so far, I really only see SONY doing this. I hope the trend does not start to include others.

Let's fill in the Hall of shame with other names of the same caliber:
Plextor (CD and DVD-writers)
Humax (DVB STBs)

Of course there are others, including Panasonic and Sharp and JVC and Samsung and so on, but since I don't own such gear I can express myself in an authoritative manner.

There's however a good thing, everything that Sony created on its own ended sooner or later at the history garbage can: SuperCassette, MiniDisk, MicroMV, MemoryStick, soon PS3

Coming back to the OT, the Intellectual Property is actually the last thing the Western World possess, as all the manufacturing centers were relocated to China. So they enforce them to squeeze money so long they can (I mean until the Chinese will be able to copy the technology, too) ... but I don't care, for many sound reasons.

[setarip_old]

@Ghitulescu

Coming back to the OT...

Yet again, please DO come back to my original topic (See Post #1 of this thread) - Overcoming CINAVIA

@xenex

Actually, the first Cinavia-infected release was "The Losers", a Warner Bros. release. So far, all other such releases have been by SONY.

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

Actually, the first Cinavia-infected release was "The Losers", a Warner Bros. release. So far, all other such releases have been by SONY.

Has there not been another WB Cinavia infected release since The Losers? Fascinating. I haven't been keeping score in regards to the studios that have Cinavia embedded in some of their releases. I would have thought WB would start using it more.

[SamuriHL]

So, back on the topic of DEFEATING Cinavia, this link was just posted on SlySoft:

http://www.mkv2vob.com/showthread.php?tid=1962

That's extremely interesting!

[setarip_old]

@samuriHL

Actually, the link you provided is to "mkv2vob Forums" (not Slysoft) - but initially interesting, nonetheless.

Is this something you've tried and, if so, confirmed as working?

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

@samuriHL

Actually, the link you provided is to "mkv2vob Forums" (not Slysoft) - but initially interesting, nonetheless.

Is this something you've tried and, if so, confirmed as working?

Um, didn't you read what I said? The *LINK* was posted on the SlySoft forum so I copied it and posted it here.

And no, it was JUST posted on SlySoft before I posted it here. And from the looks of the posts on the mkv2vob forum, this particular release looks broken anyway. I'm going to keep an eye on their forum for sure, though. This could be an interesting development.

[setarip_old]

@SamuriHL

Um, didn't you read what I said?

Read, yes - absorbed, obviously not ;>}

It will be interesting to see if there are further developments...

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

@SamuriHLRead, yes - absorbed, obviously not ;>}

ROFL! It happens to all of us.

It will be interesting to see if there are further developments...

Yea, definitely. And since the source code was posted, as well, I'm sure some brave souls will take a look at it and be able to figure out what they're doing to break Cinavia detection. I'm quite impressed if it works. Unfortunately with the current version of the tool seemingly broken, it'll be difficult to determine if it actually works for now.

[SamuriHL]

The author just posted this on the SlySoft forum:

Originally Posted by 3r1c

I am the author of that program.
It doesn't convert/transcode to PCM, it does SPDIF conversion.
The PS3 "thinks" its playing a PCM, but really its bitstreaming a DTS to the amp.
Source code
http://www.3r1c.eu/mkv2vob/dtsinpcm.c
I can assure you it does work.

This particular method may not be very useful for anydvd though, it only works on ps3 and requires an external DTS amp, otherwise you just get static.

That's a pretty sweet idea!

[setarip_old]

The tool as described by its author, "3r1c", sounds like it's a similar (not identical) concept to the hardware-only procedure in item #5 of Post #405 by "Eza17" (and confirmed as working by "b66pak" in Post #411) of this thread, to wit:

5. A fix that worked for me on the PS3 is to tweak the sound settings in the following way: Go to settings > Sound Settings, select the optical option and place a tick against every possible output type. Set the option relating to sound from multiple sources to 'On'. For some reason, with these sound options set, the Cinavia watermark isn't picked up

[A.Fenderson]

So now the question becomes: will Cinavia be updated so that implementing devices not only decode all LPCM tracks as such and check for the watermark, but also check all LPCM tracks for embedded DTS/DD/etc signals, and if detected, decode as such and again check for the watermark?

[setarip_old]

@A.Fenderson

Hi!

As I said in my earlier post:"I believe this could send the Cinavia folks back to the drawing board"

And who could ask for anything more? The chase is on ;>}

As one would have anticipated when "The Losers" first hit the streets, it was only going to be a short period of time until methods of defeating Cinavia would be discovered. Quite honestly I, for one, did not anticipate that apparent solutions (four - one software, one hardware/firmware mod, one multi-audio input "trick, and remarkably, simply changing the state of ONE VARIABLE!)) would appear this early on.

All four of the solutions address only the PS3. This is logical and beneficial, in light of the size of the PS3s user base versus the user bases of each individual brand of standalone Blu-ray player. And it may put smiles on the faces of some, to appreciate that, with the exception of one title, thus far all Cinavia-infected discs have been SONY releases. I'm sure solutions regarding standalones will follow.

I believe we'll all be delighted with the existing and near future solutions to come. Kudos to those who have the knowledge and dedication to solve these periodic "mysteries" - and are good enough to share them with the community ;>}

[flambot]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

Kudos to those who have the knowledge and dedication to solve these periodic "mysteries" - and are good enough to share them with the community ;>}

Amen to that brother!

[derbeDeus]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

The author just posted this on the SlySoft forum:



That's a pretty sweet idea!

I tried that a long time ago, but could not find an external decoder that will like the dts-in-pcm signal coming from ps3. It is a sweet idea, but not much applicable

[Eza17]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

The tool as described by its author, "3r1c", sounds like it's a similar (not identical) concept to the hardware-only procedure in item #5 of Post #405 by "Eza17" (and confirmed as working by "b66pak" in Post #411) of this thread, to wit:

Another workaround for the PS3 is to use a DLNA media server (sorry if someone has already mentioned this). I have tried streaming with TVersity and cinavia is completely ignored when watching a movie by this method.

[A.Fenderson]

Originally Posted by derbeDeus

I tried that a long time ago, but could not find an external decoder that will like the dts-in-pcm signal coming from ps3. It is a sweet idea, but not much applicable

Full-bitrate, 48KHz DTS within PCM may not be expected by the majority of DTS-capable receivers, but 44.1KHz DTS-CD style audio might--did your setup allow you to try that? Then again, I don't know if that type of stream can be encapsulated properly in a 48KHz pcm stream, and with the different sampling rates it seems unlikely, besides I think you'd need something like SurCode to reencode down to the lower bit/sampling-rate anyway.

[setarip_old]

Apparently, the discovery last week by "failOverflow" (of changing the status of a solitary variable) has quickly led to software that will allow users to modify the PS3's firmware.

The potential regarding circumvention of Cinavia protection on PS3s should be all too obvious. Click on the following link:

http://kotaku.com/5725088/you-can-no...m-ps3-firmware

[The Scientist]

As I was updating my rebox.NET tool over the weekend I thought I’d have a mess with some Cinavia titles to see if any PS3 settings and/or different output types from rebox.NET could give me successful playback of these titles. Obviously I can only speak for my own setup, FAT PS3 PAL, connected to TV (old plasma) via component cable, standard stereo output leads to TV.

PS3 audio (default): refers to my default audio settings, menu option 'Audio Input Connector /SCART / AV MULTI’
PS3 audio (all enabled): refers to the ‘audio trick’ mentioned in a few places around the net, menu option ‘Optical Digital’ and select all outputs.



I tried many sequences of playback order, sometimes MP4 first, sometimes audio default, sometimes playing one then switching to another, the only difference this would make is Cinavia would ‘kick in’ on titles before the 20 minute ‘grace’ period, especially after I’d received a warning then switch to another title. But, like the picture shows, with all the audio outputs ticked, the TS files always played OK, no matter how I tried to get it to fail.

Maybe this info will be of use to some people.

[setarip_old]

@The Scientist

Hi!

Did I misunderstand your test analysis? Is there a reason you didn't test with a ripped Blu-ray disc and its .M2TS files?