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Old 12th March 2010, 16:00   #1  |  Link
Ch3vr0n
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DTS Express

Hey Jdobbs,

I'm about to process another disc, however i've run into an "issue". The stream status windows shows that the main movie contains secondairy video and a DTS express audio stream.

For some reason i cannot seem to find the correct language nor be able to double click on the stream.

Will this have an "impact" on the secondairy video and ifso what is it ?
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Old 12th March 2010, 16:18   #2  |  Link
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There is currently no free program able to process DTS Express.. tsMuxer will not.
You can still get a working secondary video, but there will be no audio track for it.
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Old 20th March 2010, 20:28   #3  |  Link
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what is it with the DTS Express audio that makes it it unusable? All other audio tracks found on bluray can be demuxed/muxed. Whats so special about DTS express? Could it be demuxed with eac3to then re-encoded to ac3 or do pip tracks have to use dts express only?
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Old 20th March 2010, 20:32   #4  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-c-ksum View Post
what is it with the DTS Express audio that makes it it unusable? All other audio tracks found on bluray can be demuxed/muxed. Whats so special about DTS express? Could it be demuxed with eac3to then re-encoded to ac3 or do pip tracks have to use dts express only?
It's a TSMUXER issue -- it just doesn't recognize it for demuxing or remuxing. You can't "reencode to AC3" because:

1. You have to be able to decode it to convert it to anything.
2. You can't use standard AC3 for secondary audio, only DD+, for which there is no freeware encoder (I know of)
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Last edited by jdobbs; 20th March 2010 at 20:34.
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Old 20th March 2010, 20:47   #5  |  Link
k-c-ksum
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Originally Posted by jdobbs View Post
It's a TSMUXER issue -- it just doesn't recognize it for demuxing or remuxing. You can't "reencode to AC3" because:

1. You have to be able to decode it to convert it to anything.
2. You can't use standard AC3 for secondary audio, only DD+, for which there is no freeware encoder (I know of)
that rules recording it via analogue and re-encoding then
Has Tsmuxer development stopped or Is dts express being worked on?.

I thought my backups with PIP had no sound due to me not highlighting the correct track. Doh
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Old 20th March 2010, 21:36   #6  |  Link
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sry it took so long to respond. Had other pressing matters to attend to. Its a damn shame DTS-Express cant be decoded (yet). Cause i currently have couple discs backed up on white-blue verbatim BD-r DLs. This was before i knew about BDRB and how to use it. I had planned on compressing them to full white faced printables, cause well with a label on them they just look better and the video quality wouldnt be an issue cause bdrb does an excellent job.

Guess ill have to keep em on dl and wait till a dts-e decoder becomes available.
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Old 20th March 2010, 22:05   #7  |  Link
jdobbs
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Originally Posted by k-c-ksum View Post
that rules recording it via analogue and re-encoding then
Has Tsmuxer development stopped or Is dts express being worked on?.

I thought my backups with PIP had no sound due to me not highlighting the correct track. Doh
If the original is DD+ then you're fine... but if it is DTS Express I know of no way to remux it into the output stream.
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Old 16th June 2010, 18:57   #8  |  Link
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this old nutshell again, is it actually being worked on by anyone or is it seen as an un needed task
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Old 16th June 2010, 21:28   #9  |  Link
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Well ignoring the fact you dug up a 3 month old topic, think jdobbs said he planned on figuring out a way himself to decode dts-express. No news on that part though
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Old 16th June 2010, 22:05   #10  |  Link
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Of course if there was some support for tsMuxeR author things could've been different.

DTS Express needs few lines of code in tsMuxeR... It is just that roman (the author of tsMuxeR) either stopped visiting doom9 or has no real reason to do it.

Dean

//

I wonder if there is a way to 'trick' blu-ray players with marking DTS audio at lowest bitrate (768) as DTS-Express in the playlist. Of course it is way out of the standard, but... just an idea...

After all, if mediainfo manages to detect DTS EX properties by just reading ~200 bytes (I tried it), why not tsMuxeR. I believe adding support for dts-ex in tsmuxer is much more easier than dts-hd, which is already implemented.
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Last edited by deank; 16th June 2010 at 22:09.
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Old 16th June 2010, 22:45   #11  |  Link
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@deank;
Perhaps a new challenge on your list!
It does not appear tsMuxeR will be updated, since it has been approx. 1 year since they have been heard from.
Between jdobbs and yourself, from what I have seen you both accomplish so far, and in a pretty short period of time, this would seem like a small obstacle.
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Old 16th June 2010, 22:49   #12  |  Link
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I wonder if there is a way to 'trick' blu-ray players with marking DTS audio at lowest bitrate (768) as DTS-Express in the playlist. Of course it is way out of the standard, but... just an idea...
IIRC, madshi himself has written that DTS-Express is a quite different beast --- no DTS-"core", to begin with. Besides, the firmware might not be "smart" enough to ignore the misidentification of the stream-type and play it back anyway.

As for the "normal" lossy DTS --- a.k.a. "Coherent Acoustics" --- , the lowest bitrate available to the end-user, in the latest releases of the Master Audio Suite, is 192kbps, for mono audio (one could get even 126kbps in the version 1.0, which unfortunately became "abandonware" since the death of HD-DVD).
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Old 16th June 2010, 23:10   #13  |  Link
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No 'core' because it is SD audio... just like DTS, but different header and packet syntax.

I just suggested to change values in the playlist as a simple try. I can't test it, because I can't burn BD-R/RE discs but it may worth the try.

I've never been into audio processing (since the early days of CoolEdit)...

I emailed roman with a few questions, so lets see if he'll answer to my request.

Dean
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Old 16th June 2010, 23:36   #14  |  Link
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Well ignoring the fact you dug up a 3 month old topic, think jdobbs said he planned on figuring out a way himself to decode dts-express. No news on that part though
dont want to start new threads everytime that why i revived this thread again, as its been a while i was curious to see what , or if anyone had tried to impliment demux/remuxing it since the op date

Quote:
Originally Posted by deank View Post

I emailed roman with a few questions, so lets see if he'll answer to my request.

Dean
fingers crossed
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Old 16th June 2010, 23:53   #15  |  Link
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I would love to see this implemented, imo this is the only lacking feature in dvd rebuilder, and a big one at that because I would say almost 33% of disks have it, and you can't do a full backup without it, well you can but to me missing audio is not really a full 100% backup.
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Old 17th June 2010, 00:20   #16  |  Link
deank
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@deank;
Perhaps a new challenge on your list!
It does not appear tsMuxeR will be updated, since it has been approx. 1 year since they have been heard from.
Between jdobbs and yourself, from what I have seen you both accomplish so far, and in a pretty short period of time, this would seem like a small obstacle.


It is just that almost all is in there - in tsMuxeR. And this fact alone is a bit discouraging, and programming + testing a new muxer will take months, just like it was with tsMuxeR.

I just hope that roman will get back to us with something.
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Last edited by deank; 17th June 2010 at 00:22.
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Old 17th June 2010, 02:40   #17  |  Link
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I, for one, am not above a little bribery....

I try to donate to (or purchase from) the creators of all the incredibly useful free apps that I use on a regular basis (BD-Rebuilder and ImgBurn to name two of my favorites), and seeing as how I use tsMuxeR myself directly and via BD-RB all the time, I would gladly donate to the creator if they might consider adding this last little feature to their program which (so far as I know) would make it pretty much complete for Blu-ray usage.

I just ran across my first DTS-Express BD last night, and decided to skip trying to rebuild it until I could get time to research it today and find out why I couldn't add the audio track. So I checked another rip: uh-oh, another pesky DTS-Express track!

So, would anyone else be willing to contribute monetarily to encourage the continued development of tsMuxeR?
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Old 17th June 2010, 22:57   #18  |  Link
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eac3to can demux it, just need to be able to reencode to dd+ mono track which tsmuxer supports?
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Old 18th June 2010, 03:52   #19  |  Link
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eac3to can demux it, just need to be able to reencode to dd+ mono track which tsmuxer supports?
So after you demux it, what do you do with it? If you can't remux it, it's of no use... there also isn't a freeware encoder that will do either of the two acceptable secondary audio types (DTS Express and DD+).
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Old 19th June 2010, 12:01   #20  |  Link
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So after you demux it, what do you do with it? If you can't remux it, it's of no use... there also isn't a freeware encoder that will do either of the two acceptable secondary audio types (DTS Express and DD+).
is 2 channel DD supported in secondary stream?

edit - crap, it isnt.

any way to impliment eac3to as the remuxer?
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