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Old 7th September 2009, 19:02   #1  |  Link
me7
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Is the x264 "--tune film" setting film only?

I encode some music videos with x264 right now and I was wondering if the --tune film setting is intended strictly for film only or for all live action sources.
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Old 7th September 2009, 19:12   #2  |  Link
Firebird
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For all live action.
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Old 7th September 2009, 19:21   #3  |  Link
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Well, here "film" means real-life footage (which usually contains a decent amount of film grain) and similar, as opposed to Anime/Cartoon/CGI.

So if your "music video" is real-life footage with some grain, then "--tune film" will be suitable indeed. But if your video clip is animated, then "--tune animation" may be more suitable.
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Old 7th September 2009, 19:58   #4  |  Link
me7
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Is videotape compareable to film in terms of grain?
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Old 7th September 2009, 20:06   #5  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me7 View Post
Is videotape compareable to film in terms of grain?
While video tapes certainly have their own kind of artifacts, I think the "--tune" option is not so much about the type of the storage media, but about the kind/origin of the content.

Therefore I would choose the "--tune" option depending on what kind of content (real-life vs. animated) is stored on your video tape...
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 7th September 2009 at 23:17.
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Old 7th September 2009, 22:55   #6  |  Link
Lyris
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I didn't know of this setting - can someone explain what it's doing behind the scenes? Is it to avoid corrupting film grain or other high frequency noise (eg from CCD/CMOS video camera sensor)?
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:14   #7  |  Link
nurbs
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You can read about what the tunings do here. --tune film sets deblock to -1:-1 and psy-trellis to 0.15. There is also a tuning to keep grain better.
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Old 7th September 2009, 23:15   #8  |  Link
Sagekilla
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--tune film sets deblock to -1:-1 and psy-trellis to 0.15. Nothing more than that.

All it really does is enable options which are known to help filmic content retain sharpness and grain (deblock and psy-trellis respectively).

There's no secret tuning of parameters that you only get from use --tune, just enabling of plain sight options.
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Old 8th September 2009, 01:59   #9  |  Link
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Is that to say these settings, either manually or through --tune film, are recommended/safe for all live action material?
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Old 8th September 2009, 02:12   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipzoller View Post
Is that to say these settings, either manually or through --tune film, are recommended/safe for all live action material?
I don't think that attributes like "live" or "action" matter here. The nature of the footage does matter. It certainly helps to keep the crispiness of "real life" footage - action or not.

At the same time it may not be the best idea to use that for "animated" content, which usually doesn't have much texture and grain, even if there is a lot of action in it...
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Old 8th September 2009, 02:14   #11  |  Link
chipzoller
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Then let me clarify: Would using --tune film be safe and beneficial for all "real life" DVD encodes?
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Old 8th September 2009, 02:22   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipzoller View Post
Then let me clarify: Would using --tune film be safe and beneficial for all "real life" DVD encodes?
It's safe for sure, because deblock -1:-1 and psy-trellis 0.15 certainly won't do anything horrible to your encode

The question is whether "--tune film" is beneficial for your source compared to the defaults. And that generally is the case with "real-life" footage or "filmic" content.

However it still may depend on the individual source and on your personal preferences. Also deblock -1:-1 may not be the best idea for ultra-low bitrates...
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There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork.



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Old 8th September 2009, 02:25   #13  |  Link
chipzoller
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Most commercial DVD encodes done at CRF=21 should generally be helped by this preset then?
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Old 8th September 2009, 02:27   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipzoller View Post
Most commercial DVD encodes done at CRF=21 should generally be helped by this preset then?
How many times do you need the answer? Commercial or not, if your DVD source contains anything similar to "film" material (that is: not Anime, Cartoon or CGI), then it should help, yes!

But it can't be guaranteed for any single source that exists out there. There never is a guarantee for any setting to be perfect for all sources. At this point you should do some testing and see yourself

The "--tune film" option even isn't necessarily bad for all animated sources, because animated sources may use "film look" effects (e.g. fake grain), which would make it behave more like film.

(BTW: It's not a preset, it's a tuning. Those are separate! Presets help to control speed -vs- quality. Tunings help to fine-tune the encoder for a specific type of content/result)
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There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork.



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Old 8th September 2009, 02:29   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
How many times do you need the answer? At this point you should do some testing and see yourself
I prefer confirmation from the experts, but I'm running tests now Thanks
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Old 8th September 2009, 02:35   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipzoller View Post
I prefer confirmation from the experts
Then we can only hope that one of the "experts" will finally reply to this thread
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There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment.
How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork.



Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 8th September 2009 at 02:47.
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Old 8th September 2009, 03:13   #17  |  Link
Chengbin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipzoller View Post
I prefer confirmation from the experts, but I'm running tests now Thanks
I would consider someone with almost 7000 post to be at least somewhat knowledgeable.

Just so you understand. The expert does not post just to confirm. He only posts when there is misinformation, or he answers the question.
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Old 8th September 2009, 06:37   #18  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chengbin View Post
I would consider someone with almost 7000 post to be at least somewhat knowledgeable.

Just so you understand. The expert does not post just to confirm. He only posts when there is misinformation, or he answers the question.
To specify: answers an unanswered question =)
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Old 11th September 2009, 15:13   #19  |  Link
chipzoller
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I've experimented around with the --tune film option via MeGUI and found either a problem with what I'm doing or the settings it should set. Once I check the encoded files with AVInaptic, it reports -psy-rd to be 1.0:0.0 when, according to the wiki, it should be 1:0.15. These files were generated with CRF=21 with the -very slow preset (command line below). From reading the wiki, the --tune option is to be applied after the preset, so I thought any options set within the --tune setting should supersede any conflicting options (such as --deblock and --psy-rd). What am I missing?

Quote:
program --profile high --preset veryslow --tune film --crf 21 --thread-input --deblock -1:-1 --bframes 4 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --direct auto --b-bias 0 --scenecut 40 --ref 5 --rc-lookahead 40 --no-mbtree --aq-mode 1 --aq-strength 1.0 --merange 16 --me tesa --subme 9 --partitions all --trellis 2 --psy-rd 1.0:0 --output "output" "input"
Using x264 r1251 and MeGUI 0.3.1.1056
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Old 11th September 2009, 15:18   #20  |  Link
talen9
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The GUI settings does not reflect the tuning, meaning that if you choose the "film" tuning and then you go to the advanced settings, the Psy-RD values won't have changed to the 1:0.15 of the tuning; they will be the one from the MeGUI preset that you have selected.

And you have to remember that every option explicitly passed on the command line (so, every personalized MeGUI setting) will override the ones set by "--tune" or "--preset".
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