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Old 28th December 2010, 00:50   #5121  |  Link
trainspotter
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Sorry for the late reply - wifey hit me with a computer ban for the holidays


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Are you 100% sure that the problem occurs with 0.24, and does not occur with 0.23? If so, that would be interesting...
Yes, absolutely sure. I just tested it again and every build prior to 0.24 works flawlessly.
I only tried with build 0.25 and above (as I seem to have deleted 0.24 and could not find it on any mirror). 0.23 is the last version that works for me without the described "timeout".


Quote:
I'll add some more log outputs to the next build. That should help figuring out which step exactly causes the freeze for you.
Much appreciated, thank you


Quote:
That's already a good indication! On all my PCs the tray icon appears *instantly*, right when starting the exe, without any noticeable delay. madHcCtrl.exe, before showing the tray icon, does some of the same network initialization stuff that madHcNet.dll is doing. So my current guess is that one of those network calls hangs on your PC, for whatever reason...
It's a possibility. The icon actually appears at the same time when the timeout is reached / the error message is displayed.
But if it was a network related issue, why is 0.24 showing the same behavior?
I always figured the exclusive mode to be the culprit, as it was the only major change (comparing 0.23 and 0.24) judging from the changelog. But maybe something else was changed internally back then, which causes incompatibility with my gfx card?
The Geforce 8800 Ultra is not too common anymore these days, so maybe that's why I am the only one reporting this issue so far.
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Old 28th December 2010, 01:29   #5122  |  Link
dansrfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pankov View Post
dansfre,
if I understand you correctly you are saying - ditch the information between 235 and 255 and do all the processing in madVR and not in the projector/LCD TV, right?
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying this is not the right way to do it ... in fact this is exactly what I'm doing right now, except that I'm not using mpc-hc but ZoomPlayer ... it's just that I bought myself a i1d2 calibration probe and after reading/watching some guides on calibration I started to doubt if I'm doing things right.
Basically, yes, everything should be done in madVR because other methods, even those built into newer hardware will use older algorithms etc. First off, awesome job getting that calibration system. Frankly speaking I've had the same questions regarding calibration methods and what to adjust in what order with respect to:

1) the output device and its options
2) the graphics card control panel options, windows display options

Although the same setup in my previous post remains the same whether you calibrate or not.

If anyone does know this info and has some technical backing of it then please post it.
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Old 28th December 2010, 07:26   #5123  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namaiki View Post
The way I understand it, it means that if the Haali setting is PC(0-255) it assumes that the video itself is 0-255 and as such doesn't need to expand. EVR's 16-235 mode assumes that the screen is 16-235(for instance, some TVs) and as such 16-235 video(which is most videos) doesn't need to be expanded.
Are there any program which can tell me this information about videos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
Guys, it has been very simple, it is very simple and it will always be very simple:

Computer -> anything other than a crt (and some plasmas):

1) ffdshow, mpc-hc, madVR set to PC (0-255) and turn exclusive mode off unless you know what you're doing
2) Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels
3) If your output device has an option, make sure you set it to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels input.

If your setup doesn't "look" right on the output then calibrate your graphics card settings and your output device.

End of story.

PS: If you want to use subtitles with ffdshow and madVR - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1465928
I have an ati vga but in CCC never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function

Last edited by szabi; 28th December 2010 at 07:41.
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Old 28th December 2010, 09:53   #5124  |  Link
robpdotcom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szabi View Post
I have an ati vga but in CCC never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function
In CCC it's called "Pixel Format". I think you need to set CCC to "Advanced View" to show this setting.
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Old 28th December 2010, 10:26   #5125  |  Link
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CCC 10.12 is used with advanced mode but i can not find this function "Pixel Format"
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Old 28th December 2010, 10:49   #5126  |  Link
JanWillem32
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If your display only supports full-range RGB, this item isn't displayed.
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Old 28th December 2010, 10:57   #5127  |  Link
szabi
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So I have nothing to do in that case.
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Old 28th December 2010, 14:39   #5128  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szabi View Post
CCC 10.12 is used with advanced mode but i can not find this function "Pixel Format"
Depends on your card you may not have it, but if you are using the new CCC with the 10.12 drivers. While in Advanced View, on the left side you click on My Digitial Flat-Panels, under that there should be Properties (Digital Flat-Panels), Display Color (Digital Flat-Panel), HDTV Support (Digital Flat-Panels), LCD Overdrive (Digital Flat-Panels), Scaling Options (Digital Flat-Panels), and finally Pixel Format
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Old 28th December 2010, 16:05   #5129  |  Link
kostik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szabi View Post
Are there any program which can tell me this information about videos?



I have an ati vga but in CCC never ever find this "Graphics card driver/output set to RGB 4:4:4 PC Levels" function
You have this option only when you connect your tv via HDMI-HDMI or use DVI->HDMI ATI DOGLE.
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Old 28th December 2010, 17:17   #5130  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robpdotcom View Post
If you are running madHcCtrl on another PC (such as a laptop), and make changes to your HTPC settings from there, will the changes have an immediate effect? That would allow you to compare algorithms without even bringing up the menu on your HTPC.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
i recently formatted my hdd, it was time for a fresh w7 installation. when i try to open madvr in mpc-hc i get a notification:

madvr instance not found.

please make sure that youur firewall doesn t block madvr.


i m nnot running the w7 or any other firewall.....
Does this message appear when you start a video or when you try to open the madVR settings dialog? Is the madVR tray icon working? What happens if you start madHcCtrl.exe manually? Does that work around the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pankov View Post
Which is the preferred configuration if I use a HTPC connected to front projector (the HTPC is the only source)?
I use the projector to watch movies and TV (both live and recorded shows and sports) ... and occasionally some gaming.
Many calibration guides tell me not to clip/expand the video signal at the source (the HTPC/madVR) but use the brightness/contrast controls on the display device. Using the later I'm supposed to hide everything bellow level 16, while preserving everything up to 255. While I'm not sure if I really need the information between 235 and 255 I'm partly ready to sacrifice it but I thought it's better to ask first.
Also if I configure madVR in such a way (using levels 16-235) after I reconfigure my projector I'll "break" my gaming experience, right?
For gaming and desktop you will want the PC to output classical computer levels (0-255). Many projectors have a switch in their setup menu to define whether you're sending RGB with video or PC levels. If you configure both PC and projector correctly, you should be able to get proper levels for desktop and games - if the projector has a RGB level switch. If it doesn't, you can try simulating it by modifying projector brightness and contrast controls.

Regardless of the above, for madVR you definitely want to set the GPU driver controls so that 0-255 is output. For ATI that means to set the HDMI connection to "RGB Full". For nVidia that means that you should create custom resolutions for all output modes you want to use with madVR.

Now the question is which levels (TV vs PC) you should use in the madVR settings dialog. *If* your projector has a RGB levels switch and if you also want to use the projector + HTPC for desktop, photos and gaming, you can set madVR to PC levels without any worry. The projector will not get BTB and WTW data this way - but BTB and WTW is not supposed to be shown, anyway, so that's no big loss. The advantage of this setup is that you won't have to change anything between madVR and games etc. Alternatively you could set madVR to video/TV levels (16-235). But then, if you also want to game sometimes, you'll have to switch the projector levels settings all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pankov View Post
On the other hand if I set madVR to PC levels (0-255) it will have to process every frame and despite madshi's genius it it still an additional processing that can spoil the quality, right? And I'll definitely lose the information between 235 and 255, right?
Thanks to the 16bit+ per component processing, there will be zero image quality loss, if you switch to PC levels instead of TV/video levels. The only disadvantage of PC levels is that you lose BTB/WTW. But that's mostly only a problem if you want to run a calibration DVD with BTB/WTW test patterns.

Whatever you do, of course you need to make sure that HTPC and projector use matching levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post
Yes, absolutely sure. I just tested it again and every build prior to 0.24 works flawlessly.
I only tried with build 0.25 and above (as I seem to have deleted 0.24 and could not find it on any mirror). 0.23 is the last version that works for me without the described "timeout".

I always figured the exclusive mode to be the culprit, as it was the only major change (comparing 0.23 and 0.24) judging from the changelog. But maybe something else was changed internally back then, which causes incompatibility with my gfx card?
I checked back and I did happen to add the madHcNet.dll in 0.24, without mentioning it in the changelog (because the purpose of the DLL was a secret at that time). So the whole network initialization stuff was added in 0.24. I think the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with exclusive mode, but rather with some of the madHcNet initialization stuff. I've added some more logging to my work-in-progress sources, so please upload a new log for me, when the next madVR build is out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post
The Geforce 8800 Ultra is not too common anymore these days, so maybe that's why I am the only one reporting this issue so far.
I highly doubt that the GPU model has anything to do with it. madVR is mostly GPU model independent. Well, not performance wise, of course. But in terms of problems/bugs.
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Old 28th December 2010, 17:22   #5131  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I just reproduced the problem on my brothers PC, I updated to the latest CCCP beta on his system and installed madVR 0.32.
Installing an earlier build of MPC does not fix the problem, I tried build 2268 to test your theory.

You can either queue two files in the playlist or use the play next in folder feature. Once playback starts in windows mode I double click to maximize (The last displayed frame before maximizing is the frame that's displayed before the next file plays) I then skip to near the end of the file using the exclusive seekbar and continue to play in fullscreen.

MPC options launch files in fullscreen and exit fullscreen at end of playback were not enabled. Files queued in the playlist were not anything specific. My system is a x64 Windows 7 with ATI graphics and my brothers is running Vista with Nvidia graphics.

I tried reproducing on a Intel graphics based system running 7 but could only reproduce when exit fullscreen at the end of playback was enabled. I'll look at that system again when I have the chance, to confirm that.
I've done some more checking and logging. And I think the issue is as follows:

Whenever madVR switches between windowed and exclusive mode, Aero often likes to show a cached old image. This problem is well known (many complaints in this thread). But I don't think there's much I can do about it. I've seen in the madVR logs that when switching from one video file to the next (either through playlist of "play next file in folder"), MPC HC totally destroys the madVR renderer and recreates it. This is somewhat similar to switching between windowed and exclusive mode - just even more extreme. Again I strongly suppose that Aero is the one drawing an old frame in between.

Right now I don't have any good ideas about how to solve this from within madVR. MPC HC could solve it by not destroying+recreating the madVR renderer. MPC HC could reuse the same madVR instance when switching to the next video file. This would likely work around the problem. But I don't know if it's reasonable to expect the MPC HC guys to invest time into this, when it works relatively well with other renderers (and also with madVR, minus the cosmetical trouble).

One thing you could try is to disable Aero. Maybe that works around the issue?
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Old 28th December 2010, 17:36   #5132  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowknight26 View Post
While trying to nail down that chroma plane shifting bug, I managed to get a different one.
After pressing Alt+Enter enough, MPC-HC eventually stopped rendering the GUI and video in windowed mode and right clicking on the video caused MPC-HC to crash.. faulting module was madVR.
I've tried to reproduce this. Switched back and forth 50 times, no problems here. If you can reproduce it, we'll have to wait for some future madVR version which hopefully will be able to produce a proper crash report. For now logs don't help too much with crashes, unfortunately...
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:32   #5133  |  Link
airblaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by airblaster
I just noticed that madVR upscales videos if display width (1280px in my case) is the same as video width (1280px).
Is there any need for upscaling in this kind of situation?
The media player decides whether any upscaling is done. madVR does what the media player says. Anyway, how did you come to the conclusion that madVR upscales in that specific situation? What did the madVR OSD say? If you switch your media player to "100%" output, madVR should not scale.
I did some more tests, and it seems like I really enabled some kind of scaling in the media player. The only scaling still active at 100% output seems to be chroma scaling.

Below are the test results:

Quote:
Movie: Big Buck Bunny ("MP4" version)
Display resolution: 1280x800
Movie resolution: 1280x720
All tests done in exclusive mode
Player: MPC-HC 1.4.2748.0 (MSVC 2010 version)
OS: Windows 7 64bit

### touch window from outside
Target rectangle: -71, 0, 1351,800

# Test 1: bilinear scaling for everything
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 2: chroma upscaling spline 4 taps / luma upscaling and downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 85
delayed frames: 142

# Test 3: luma upscaling spline 4 taps / chroma upscaling and luma downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 162
delayed frames: 208

# Test 4: luma & chroma upscaling spline 4 taps / luma downscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 297
delayed frames: 201

# Test 5: luma downscaling spline 4 taps / upscaling bilinear
dropped frames: 5
delayed frames: 2

# Test 6: everything spline 4 taps
dropped frames:
delayed frames:

#### touch window from inside
Target rectangle: 0, 40, 1280, 760
# Test 1
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 2
dropped frames: 22
delayed frames: 25

# Test 3
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 4
dropped frames: 32
delayed frames: 53

# Test 5
dropped frames: 2
delayed frames: 1

# Test 6
dropped frames: 24
delayed frames: 61
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:34   #5134  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owyn View Post
btw, there are two bugs i found found while using madVR in KMPlayer

1. in fullscreen mode when you press esc and it supposted to minimize it stucks on screen and you can't really do anything further - need reset or other blind actions to turn off video
This will be fixed in the next build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owyn View Post
2. esc again, when you open subtitles menu (alt + q) the esc which is supposted to close it just doesn't do it but does thing to video (minimize or corrupts it(see 1st))
When you open the subtitles menu, madVR has to switch back from exclusive mode to windowed mode. In this situation it can happen that the new dialog (in this case the subtitle menu) is not the active window, but the renderer is. If in this case you press ESC, the key is sent to the renderer and not the subtitle menu. If you acticate the subtitle menu before pressing ESC, even the old madVR version would have behaved as expected.
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:37   #5135  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by airblaster View Post
I did some more tests, and it seems like I really enabled some kind of scaling in the media player. The only scaling still active at 100% output seems to be chroma scaling.
Yep, that's as intended.
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:53   #5136  |  Link
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Quote:
I checked back and I did happen to add the madHcNet.dll in 0.24, without mentioning it in the changelog (because the purpose of the DLL was a secret at that time). So the whole network initialization stuff was added in 0.24. I think the problem you're experiencing has nothing to do with exclusive mode, but rather with some of the madHcNet initialization stuff. I've added some more logging to my work-in-progress sources, so please upload a new log for me, when the next madVR build is out.
Ahh.. I see
Thanks for clearing that up, madshi.
All your hard work is highly appreciated!

I doubt it, but could IPv6 be a problem for madHcNet?
Except for an active IPv6 stack there is nothing really special about my network configuration.
Deactivating all network connections did not help with my issue :/
Nothing else to try comes to mind, so I will wait for the new version with enhanced logging capabilities
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:57   #5137  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pankov View Post
I have a major problem with the latest versions of madVR (> 0.31) and the latest builds of MPC Matroska splitter.

If I try to play a second file using a shortcut or the "next" button on my remote control while being in FSE mode I get the following error:
---------------------------
Zoom Player
---------------------------
Access violation at address 4A402E1A in module 'madVR.ax'. Read of address 00000018.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------
I get the same error if Zoom Player automatically advances to the next video file in the playlist.
If I'm in windowed or fullscreen windowed mode everything is fine.
I haven't managed to reproduce the crash with Haali's Media Splitter and didn't try with the MPC splitter (don't have it installed as an external filter). But I've done a little change and hope that it will fix the issue in the next build. If not, please let me know. If it does fix the issue, please still send me a log file with the next madVR build from a situation where the old madVR build would have crashed. I've added some logging, so with your log I might be able to figure out whether my added fix really does work as intended.
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Old 28th December 2010, 19:57   #5138  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by trainspotter View Post
I doubt it, but could IPv6 be a problem for madHcNet?
Shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 28th December 2010, 20:28   #5139  |  Link
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madshi, when playing SOME bdmv's with madVR as the renderer, seeking using the mpc-hc seekbar works fine, but seeking using the madVR one doesn't seem to work correctly.

For example seeking back / forward perhaps a few pixels, can often jump 1 hour into the past / future with madVR. This was with Toy Story 3 blu-ray which contains many m2ts files. Is this a madVR issue, or a problem with seamless branching within mpc-hc for example? Not a big issue but something you might want to add to your list of things to look into if it indeed is a madVR problem.
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Old 28th December 2010, 20:37   #5140  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
madshi, when playing SOME bdmv's with madVR as the renderer, seeking using the mpc-hc seekbar works fine, but seeking using the madVR one doesn't seem to work correctly.

For example seeking back / forward perhaps a few pixels, can often jump 1 hour into the past / future with madVR. This was with Toy Story 3 blu-ray which contains many m2ts files. Is this a madVR issue, or a problem with seamless branching within mpc-hc for example? Not a big issue but something you might want to add to your list of things to look into if it indeed is a madVR problem.
I guess this bdmv playback is an MPC HC trick to blend multiple m2ts parts together? In this situation most probably the MPC HC seekbar is a hack, jumping into different m2ts files?

madVR's seekbar bypasses the media player and seeks directly via the DirectShow methods. My best guess is that this confuses the bdmv playback logic. But I don't really know, probably the devs who implemented bdmv playback would have to comment on this.

As far as I know, there's no easy way for madVR to tell MPC HC that it should seek somewhere, so using the DirectShow seek methods directly seems to be the only way for madVR to realize the seekbar functionality. Which means that there may not be much I can do. But I'm not 100% sure.
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