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Old 8th August 2008, 18:07   #1  |  Link
halsboss
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highest quality deinterlacer

So many deinterlace options/versions, so few memory brain cells, so many search results.

Seeking opinion/link on the latest version of "highest quality" deinterlacer for 1080i (TFF I think) where high level of movement can be apparent and possibly with night time fireworks. Processing fps rate not an issue although helpful if could indicate how to speed up with MT/SetMTmode if at all.

Thought it was TDEINT with EEDI or NEDI or something (but don't know how to string them together) ... MCbob or MVbob still around (and their dependent plugins/functions) ?

Last edited by halsboss; 8th August 2008 at 18:16. Reason: btw: goal=highest possible quality downsize 1080i->567i
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Old 8th August 2008, 18:18   #2  |  Link
mikeytown2
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If I need quality I use MCBob + NNEDI. If you wish to merely deinterlace, then I'm assuming one of the NNEDI variants would give you the best quality.
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Old 8th August 2008, 20:13   #3  |  Link
Mystery Keeper
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In video processing there is no universal solution. In one video I used both TempGaussMC_beta1 and nMCBob on different frames.
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Old 8th August 2008, 20:33   #4  |  Link
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Try the ones generally regarded as being best and see which one you like best.
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Old 8th August 2008, 20:39   #5  |  Link
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I use MCBob+NNEDI for high quality. Since it's motion-based, it works well for my sports videos.

Other deinterlacers may be better suited for other types.
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Old 8th August 2008, 20:41   #6  |  Link
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Indeed. There are many choices!

My "standard" is either TDeint or Yadif, since they're both quite fast.

TDeint is very good (and quite a bit slower) when assisted with TMM and NNEDI, but it's still faster than MCBob or TempGaussMC

But it's really impossible to say which one is the "highest quality". It's very source dependent!

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Old 8th August 2008, 22:43   #7  |  Link
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If you are looking for a top-notch, double-rate output deinterlacer that avoids inter-line flicker/shimmer, I would definitely recommend TempGaussMC_beta.

Technically it doesnt qualify as a bobber, as the original fields are not left untouched, and denoising (MVDegrain) and and counter-sharpening are integral components of the processing, so if you dont want denoising or prefer a different denoiser, consider something else.

Generally, for SD/DV sources, I prefer the 'EEDI2' edi mode (default in the beta version), but the faster 'Yadif' mode still produces very good results and perhaps is more practical (in terms of processing time) for HD source material.
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Last edited by WorBry; 9th August 2008 at 00:42.
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Old 8th August 2008, 23:04   #8  |  Link
Mystery Keeper
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TempGaussMC oftenly causes ghosting in anime.
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Old 9th August 2008, 01:00   #9  |  Link
halsboss
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Thankyou all. So far, the options and opinions seem to be

1) MCBob + NNEDI ... "MCBob+NNEDI for high quality. Since it's motion-based, it works well for my sports videos"

2) nMCBob ? Will have to do a search and edit this line...

3) TempGaussMC_beta ... recognizing "the original fields are not left untouched, and denoising (MVDegrain) and and counter-sharpening are integral components of the processing, so if dont want denoising or prefer a different denoiser, consider something else" and "TempGaussMC oftenly causes ghosting in anime" ... probably will give this a miss on the basis of risk of doing unfortunate things to night-time fireworks.

4) TDeint+NNEDI ... "TDeint is very good (and quite a bit slower) when assisted with TMM and NNEDI, but it's still faster than MCBob or TempGaussM". Interestingly, http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...95#post1045895 says "The bad news is that it's about as slow as MVBob too. And this is with Threads=2 enabled for NNEDI. It doesn't come close to MCBob though, regardless of whether MCBob is using the NNEDI or not"

Now, to search on their dependent plugins etc, and how to call them. Any suggestions on using them with MT/SetMTmode ?

Ah, just found this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revgen View Post
NNEDI: Very Good Quality, Terrible Stability
MVBOB: Very Good Quality, Very Good Stability
MCBOB: Best Quality, Best Stability
NNEDI+TDeint: Good Quality, Good Stability

NNEDI didn't allow too many stray interlaced lines to come in, but the video was flickering and jerking too much and wasn't stable. Pairing it with TDeint improved stability but allowed more stray interlacing artifacts in. If there are any suggestions on improving quality for the NNDI scripts, let me know.

NNDI Settings:

NNDI = nnedi(field=3,y=true,u=true,v=true,threads=2,opt=0)

NNEDI+TDeint =

interp = nnedi(field=3,y=true,u=true,v=true,threads=2,opt=0)
tdeint(mode=1,order=1,edeint=interp)

MVBOB = Default

MCBOB = Default
On that basis, I'm off to look up how to use and, if possible, multi-thread "1) MCBob + NNEDI"

Last edited by halsboss; 9th August 2008 at 01:25.
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Old 9th August 2008, 02:47   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halsboss View Post
3) TempGaussMC_beta ... recognizing "the original fields are not left untouched, and denoising (MVDegrain) and and counter-sharpening are integral components of the processing, so if dont want denoising or prefer a different denoiser, consider something else" and "TempGaussMC oftenly causes ghosting in anime" ... probably will give this a miss on the basis of risk of doing unfortunate things to night-time fireworks.
Ah, yes, I see from the edit footnote in your leading post that you are planning to re-interlace to 576i.

Had your intended final format been progressive I would have suggested that TGMC might be of benefit in preventing undue bob-flicker of the "fireworks at night"....unless of course that extra twinkle is a desirable effect

BTW- dont do anime myself, but cant say I've noticed 'ghosting' with the live DV material I"ve tested thus far.
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Last edited by WorBry; 9th August 2008 at 02:50.
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Old 9th August 2008, 03:23   #11  |  Link
Yoshiyuki Blade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorBry View Post
BTW- dont do anime myself, but cant say I've noticed 'ghosting' with the live DV material I"ve tested thus far.
From what I've experienced, its kind of hard to notice the ghosting since when it runs at 60fps (bobbed NTSC) versus the common 24 fps.
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Old 9th August 2008, 03:57   #12  |  Link
halsboss
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OK. Have this non-MT script (with MCbob+NNEDI from http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...63#post1055263) and am wondering your opinion;
1. if there'd be any difference between the quality by resizing with A. vs resizing with B (in the script)
2. if you could suggest better for a highest possible quality downsize 1080i -> 576i for DVD, assuming a reasonable HQ source
3. how to multi-thread it assuming an intel 4-core Q9450 in one PC and a Q6600 4-core in another (I've already put ",threads=4" in every NNEDI call in mcbob)

Code:
###SetMTmode(mode=5,threads=2) # start with mode=5 forAVIsource http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1067216#post1067216 
###Disable MT  
SetMemoryMax(768)                    
LoadPlugin("C:\SOFTWARE\DGindex\DGDecode.dll")  
# snip - load the plugins here #
Import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\MCBob-NNEDI.avs") 
# ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
#MPEG2Source("G:\HDTV\1\test.d2v",cpu=6) # cpu=6: DEBLOCK_Y_H, DEBLOCK_Y_V, DEBLOCK_C_H, DEBLOCK_C_V, DERING_Y, DERING_C 
MPEG2Source("G:\HDTV\1\test.d2v") # cpu=6: DEBLOCK_Y_H, DEBLOCK_Y_V, DEBLOCK_C_H, DEBLOCK_C_V, DERING_Y, DERING_C 
AssumeFPS(25) 
AssumeTFF() ### THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO SET CORRECTLY 
FRAMERATE=25 
WIDTH=704 
HEIGHT=576 
# --A. 
AssumeTFF()  
MCbob() 
bicubicresize(704,576)  
separatefields() 
selectevery(4,0,3) 
weave() 
# --B. 
#AssumeTFF()  
#bicubicresize(704,LAST.height()) 
#MCbob() 
#bicubicresize(last.width(),576)  
#separatefields() 
#selectevery(4,0,3) 
#weave() 
# ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
#  
Converttoyv12(interlaced=true) 
#  
SetPlanarLegacyAlignment(True) 
# Distributor() should only be used when loading the script into applications which talk to avisynth directly  
# e.g. HC and MeGUI. If the program opens the .avs file as an avi file (like virtualdub/mod, x264, xvid_encraw etc.)  
# then you don't need (and shouldn't have) the distributor call at the end. 
# http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1136518#post1136518 
##### "HC uses custom avisynth routines, you have to add Distributor() to the end of the script." 
Distributor() # use this when using HC and SetMTmode, per http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1063622#post1063622 
# http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1067589#post1067589 
# ChangeFPS(Last, Last, True) makes fast scripts faster and slow scripts slower !! 
#ChangeFPS(Last, Last, True) # use this when using HC and SetMTmode, per http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1064118#post1064118
hc.ini
Code:
*INFILE D:\HDTV\1\test-CQ2.avs 
*OUTFILE D:\HDTV\1\test.mpv 
*INTERLACED 
*TFF 
*LOGFILE D:\HDTV\1\test-HC-CQ2.log 
*PROFILE BEST 
*ASPECT 16:9 
*BIAS 50 
*BITRATE 9350 
*MAXBITRATE 9450 
*LASTIFRAME 
*AUTOGOP 15 
*PULLDOWN 
*CLOSEDGOPS 
*DC_PREC 10 
*CQ_MAXBITRATE 2 
*MATRIX FOX1
EDIT: already put ",threads=2" or ",threads=4" in every call to NNEDI and it went from 0.3 fps to 0.8 fps (1080i source)

Last edited by halsboss; 11th August 2008 at 10:40. Reason: glitch
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Old 11th August 2008, 10:29   #13  |  Link
2Bdecided
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery Keeper View Post
TempGaussMC oftenly causes ghosting in anime.
Would it be possible for you to provide a small sample that has this problem?

Then again, TGMC is designed for native interlaced content. Anime rarely is - any interlacing is more usually some messed up rendition of 24p, 30p, 15p, 25p etc etc, sometimes with field blending. Occasionally there's a fade, pan, or scene transition that's "really" interlaced.

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Old 11th August 2008, 16:36   #14  |  Link
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TempGaussMC caused ghosting in anime when I did it after cropping. If done before - there's no problem. Sowwy ^_^'
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Old 11th August 2008, 17:08   #15  |  Link
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Of course it did. You should never crop Interlaced material, just to be safe.
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Old 11th August 2008, 17:53   #16  |  Link
Gavino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin7777 View Post
You should never crop Interlaced material, just to be safe.
Surely (vertical) cropping on a mod4 boundary is safe enough?
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Old 12th August 2008, 02:44   #17  |  Link
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I don't know for 100%, but I know it's never a good idea to crop before deinterlacing, or resizing to a size bigger than width/2 height/2.
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Old 12th August 2008, 02:54   #18  |  Link
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I think it's better to crop after deinterlacing because it gives the deinterlacer more information to handle the (to-be) border pixels.
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Old 10th December 2010, 11:23   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_MiSfit View Post
Indeed. There are many choices!

My "standard" is either TDeint or Yadif, since they're both quite fast.

TDeint is very good (and quite a bit slower) when assisted with TMM and NNEDI, but it's still faster than MCBob or TempGaussMC

But it's really impossible to say which one is the "highest quality". It's very source dependent!

~MiSfit
So if source dependent, what types are best for what source (i.e. sports, darker video, DV SD home videos, animation, etc)?
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Old 14th December 2010, 20:10   #20  |  Link
Mystery Keeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryho_hk View Post
I think it's better to crop after deinterlacing because it gives the deinterlacer more information to handle the (to-be) border pixels.
When it comes to interpolation (which deinterlacing is), black borders are actually junk information, that creates sharp border and distortion in interpolated pixels near it. Clever extrapolation gives much better result for border pixels than just filling the space outside with solid colour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfcarbel View Post
So if source dependent, what types are best for what source (i.e. sports, darker video, DV SD home videos, animation, etc)?
It is always source dependant what means you need to use to enchance the video quality. Still, there are newer smarter filters than some that used to be good before. For example, "TomsMoComp" used to be one of the best deinterlacers in the past. It was superseded by MVBob. Which was superseded by MCBob. Which for some time competed with TempGaussMC, but gave up as TempGaussMC evolved.
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