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Old 24th April 2008, 17:33   #41  |  Link
burfadel
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With a non-grainy source, any chance of a film grain threshold? Adaptive strength based on threshold? That would be particularly useful for mixed videos!

I have noticed with the couple of clips I did the file size increased significantly, but I guess thats expected! (the results are great).

I read somewhere that the b-frame decision of x264 could be improved, is this true? Would that affect the FGO? Would storing the main film grain in b-frames and using the principles of your grain optimiser plugin actually work, in an effort to reduce the output size impact (maybe as a different mode to fgo)?

Last edited by burfadel; 24th April 2008 at 17:38.
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Old 24th April 2008, 19:10   #42  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
With a non-grainy source, any chance of a film grain threshold? Adaptive strength based on threshold? That would be particularly useful for mixed videos!
If we can get a good measurement of film grain that doesn't have false positives (this method, for example, would get a high "noise" value on a very sharp edge, which would be a problem for very clean sources), that might be possible.
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I read somewhere that the b-frame decision of x264 could be improved, is this true?
Yes.
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Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
Would storing the main film grain in b-frames and using the principles of your grain optimiser plugin actually work, in an effort to reduce the output size impact (maybe as a different mode to fgo)?
You mean storing the grain in P-frames? That's actually already done in a sense since the B-frames often simply take the grain from the neighboring P-frames instead of re-encoding their own new grain. FGO makes this much more likely, since the bidirectional mode, which generally gives the best RD score, tends to blur out grain (making FGO less likely to select it).
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Old 24th April 2008, 20:10   #43  |  Link
MfA
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Hell, someone is being paid this summer to work on improving the b-frame decision ... someone we know?
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Old 24th April 2008, 20:13   #44  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Hell, someone is being paid this summer to work on improving the b-frame decision ... someone we know?
Its a GSOC project; Robert Deaton will be the student responsible for B-frame decision improvement.
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Old 24th April 2008, 20:32   #45  |  Link
donis
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Awesome news
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Old 25th April 2008, 04:53   #46  |  Link
cestfait
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on fgo:

I've never liked the flat matrix so much. Always wanted to use it, but it was too prone to banding and blocking.

This patch is a keeper. Spectacular work, Dark Shikari.

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Old 25th April 2008, 11:06   #47  |  Link
bokonon
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Decoder (hardware and software) must be compatible with FGM. As far I know it's not the case for libavcodec, coreavc ...
Does anyone know if it is supported by the sigma decoder in Network Media Tanks such as Popcorn Hour
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Old 25th April 2008, 11:38   #48  |  Link
MfA
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Originally Posted by McCauley View Post
the problem is that there's no way to remove the grain without loosing any details
There is no way to do lossy compression without loosing any detail either, there is going to be a crossover point where the saved bits provide a net gain.
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Old 25th April 2008, 16:31   #49  |  Link
Razorholt
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@DS: I remember you say to enable p4x4 with GrainOptimizer. Do you recommend to do the same with FGO?

Thanks,
- Dan
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Old 25th April 2008, 16:37   #50  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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@DS: I remember you say to enable p4x4 with GrainOptimizer. Do you recommend to do the same with FGO?

Thanks,
- Dan
No, they're totally different; no benefit here to p4x4 really.
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Old 25th April 2008, 16:51   #51  |  Link
bokonon
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anyone tried it on a mixed source? (i.e.scenes with varying amounts of grain)
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Old 25th April 2008, 19:08   #52  |  Link
ToS_Maverick
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as I stated above, I got VERY good results with FGO at preventing x264 from banding! If you like i could post some screens...
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Old 25th April 2008, 19:18   #53  |  Link
dbzgundam
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I'll have to try this with older cel-style anime... The grain present often gets turned into flat blocking.
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Old 25th April 2008, 19:41   #54  |  Link
bokonon
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Originally Posted by ToS_Maverick View Post
as I stated above, I got VERY good results with FGO at preventing x264 from banding! If you like i could post some screens...
please do!

include the source caps if possible

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Old 25th April 2008, 20:40   #55  |  Link
bokonon
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Source: x264 r830 GIT (git://git.videolan.org/x264.git)

Applied patches (current versions):

x264_2pass_vbv.7.diff

x264_fix_win_stdin.diff

x264_FGO.diff (fixed by Dark Shikari & techouse)

x264.gaussian.cplxblur.01.diff

x264_hrd_pulldown.04_interlace.diff

x264_me-prepass_DeathTheSheep.diff
http://techouse.project357.com/build...30_techouse.7z
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Old 25th April 2008, 22:33   #56  |  Link
Tack
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The patch truly does wonders for grain, but the resulting bitrate increase was a bit disappointing (even if not unexpected). VAQ+prestige still satisfies my eyes and the bitrate is quite manageable. I count myself lucky not to be among those tuned into the style of artifacting caused by prestige that others have pointed out.

When the h264 user/developer community sorts out FGM, then I'll launch fireworks from my balcony.
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Old 26th April 2008, 08:42   #57  |  Link
Yoshiyuki Blade
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Looks interesting ! Do you think this will work well on clear sources with artificially-added grain (via avisynth filters)? I'm curious to try that out.
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Old 26th April 2008, 08:54   #58  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Originally Posted by Yoshiyuki Blade View Post
Looks interesting ! Do you think this will work well on clear sources with artificially-added grain (via avisynth filters)? I'm curious to try that out.
Sure, it'll work for any sort of noise.
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Old 27th April 2008, 02:41   #59  |  Link
desta
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Does fgo need to be enabled during the first pass of a 2-pass encode, as obviously this would require using --subme 6 and --b-rdo?
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Old 27th April 2008, 02:47   #60  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Does fgo need to be enabled during the first pass of a 2-pass encode, as obviously this would require using --subme 6 and --b-rdo?
It doesn't need to; I'm not sure what benefit it would have.
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