Haali Splitter 20 FPS Bug Status H.264 HW/Accel

RaggedEdge · 2nd September 2007, 09:26

Has there been any movement on the MKV 720P x264 20 FPS bug?

Is there any alternative MKV Splitter, or is Haali the only option for MKV?

It sure would be good to hear Haali's opinion on the bug - please give us all an update.

Dark Shikari · 2nd September 2007, 09:32

What bug is this? I have not heard of it.

hekoheko · 2nd September 2007, 10:14

This is the biggest bug there is!
Hope it gets fixed ASAP.

PS: Concerns only DXVA playback with NVIDIA and ATI cards.

arfster · 2nd September 2007, 12:22

There's a mkv splitter built into MPC, but it does exactly the same thing. Makes it more likely it's a bug with the PDVD decoder imo, and they don't support mkv - mail them asking for it!

liquidator87 · 2nd September 2007, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfster

There's a mkv splitter built into MPC, but it does exactly the same thing. Makes it more likely it's a bug with the PDVD decoder imo, and they don't support mkv - mail them asking for it!

Second that

The B-frames are the problem, without them everything works well

RaggedEdge · 3rd September 2007, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by arfster

There's a mkv splitter built into MPC, but it does exactly the same thing. Makes it more likely it's a bug with the PDVD decoder imo, and they don't support mkv - mail them asking for it!

I have asked Cyberlink to look into the MKV 20FPS bug, and they have agreed to forward the details to their developers, but nothings happened, suprise suprise!

I guess we are going to have to wait for someone to grab the parser from Haali's website, and use it to create a new MKV File Source DirectX Filter... any takers?

madshi · 2nd October 2007, 09:10

It's not the fault of MKV and not the fault of any MKV splitter. You can write 20 new MKV DirectShow filters and the problem will still be there. The problem has nothing to do with MKV. It's a problem between x264 encodes and h264 hardware accleration. You'd have the very same problem if you remuxed the problematic videos from MKV to MP4 or TS or in any other container.

Trahald · 2nd October 2007, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi

It's not the fault of MKV and not the fault of any MKV splitter. You can write 20 new MKV DirectShow filters and the problem will still be there. The problem has nothing to do with MKV. It's a problem between x264 encodes and h264 hardware accleration. You'd have the very same problem if you remuxed the problematic videos from MKV to MP4 or TS or in any other container.

If you are saying x264 is the issue, i would have to disagree. I have made 1080p x264 encodes and put them in mkv and works fine. (almost no cpu usage playback thru pdvd) .. and this is on a pc that goes 80% cpu playing xvids of a decent resolution.

Now i have found some h264/mkvs that didnt play (i force mpc to use pdvd for avc playback so i either get full gpu offload or failure)... i havent been able to figure out what the difference is between these files (its stuff i didnt make myself)... these files still fail the pdvd decoder even if i demux them. the only thing is.. again since i didnt make them, im not sure if they got butchered during mux because now even demuxed the raw file is too borked to work... or was it the original encode? my successful encode/muxes were done with newest mkvmerge and recent x264.

adspence · 2nd October 2007, 14:45

Not 100% sure this is the same thing, but I have a problem when running mkv's with the Cyberlink H264 codec. It drops frames, and not because there is a CPU issue (its only using around 20%). This is why I have to use CoreAVC instead, it works reliably.

madshi · 2nd October 2007, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trahald

If you are saying x264 is the issue, i would have to disagree. I have made 1080p x264 encodes and put them in mkv and works fine. (almost no cpu usage playback thru pdvd) .. and this is on a pc that goes 80% cpu playing xvids of a decent resolution.

Now i have found some h264/mkvs that didnt play (i force mpc to use pdvd for avc playback so i either get full gpu offload or failure)... i havent been able to figure out what the difference is between these files (its stuff i didnt make myself)... these files still fail the pdvd decoder even if i demux them. the only thing is.. again since i didnt make them, im not sure if they got butchered during mux because now even demuxed the raw file is too borked to work... or was it the original encode? my successful encode/muxes were done with newest mkvmerge and recent x264.

I'm not totally sure what exactly causes the problems. It's definitely not every x264 encoded video that fails. It's just some of them. Probably those that fail are using very special encoding settings or something like that. But you can try remuxing them into another container and they'll still not be accelerated. The point I was trying to make is simply that MKV has nothing to do with all this. It is *NOT* a Haali Splitter bug, as far as I can say. So it's no use bugging Haali with this.

TheShadowRunner · 3rd October 2007, 06:21

Clearly it is not a Haali splitter bug since i don't use it and experience the bug :/
My bet on the source of the 20fps bug goes on the way the pdvd codec communicates with the vmr9 renderer...

Maybe a petition for Cyberlink to correct the bug would help ^^

Demone · 3rd October 2007, 13:48

I for a moment thought it was not splitter fault but strange enought when remuxing those 20fps bug x264 into avi they work like a charme. Could it be a timecode problem ?

Then there is the black screen problem and some ppl say that changing the bframe setting of x264 encoder is the solution

Sharktooth · 3rd October 2007, 15:33

no... it's a bframes problem. since h.264 into avi needs a hack for bframes, that hack may as well (unwillingly?!?) fix the problem

TheShadowRunner · 3rd October 2007, 18:07

I'm not sure it's a bframe problem.
Please see the last answers to this thread:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1051356
Maybe a VMR9 deinterlacing bug..?

Demone · 3rd October 2007, 18:37

Its said that cl264dec.ax older versions dont produce black screen

I have a x264 clip that doesnt start with black frames like every movie and it freezes showing black upon play, but if I grab and move mplayerc window there is a forced refresh of the vmr surface and the first frame appears, just to tell you that it seems that after the first frame the graph freezes but the video stream informations are gained correctly, infact the player window is resized to actual video sizes........but doesnt play

TheShadowRunner · 3rd October 2007, 18:44

Demone, do you know if cl264dec.ax version 2.0.0.1904 is the latest one by any chance?

Demone · 3rd October 2007, 19:42

I think its the last one but check this page:
http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/downl...s_112_ENU.html

This is an interesting thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73218&page=100

DrNein · 4th October 2007, 14:37

Encoding with x264 using certain options to produce non-standard (H.264/AVC) output is the main problem. Unfortunately, most of the files we are likely to encounter have been done wrong (presumably because, ironically, most people encoding are playing back with non-DxVA capable hardware and thus limiting output to 720 so that software decoders can manage).

I have not come across any which when demuxed did not still exhibit the framerate defect so the container is not usually an issue.

However, Matroska is also sometimes to blame since some older x264/MKV files which do not exhibit the framerate defect with older splitter versions (such as integrated into MPC) do so with later and the current Haali/Matroska splitter.

TheShadowRunner · 4th October 2007, 22:06

DrNein, thanks for these details.
Is it possible for you to link me to one of those working 720p Matroska files that DO NOT have the 20fps bug when HA is enabled in the Cyberlink filter?
Or teach me how to create one?
I'm having a real tough time finding one that works at all, they either exhibit the 20fps bug or black-screen-on-play bug so far

720p/MKV/h264/24fps/VMR9 is apparently the bad combo for hardware acceleration with Cyberlink decoder.
I really hope there's a solution to this.
Thanks

TSR
edit: from what I read in other threads; there is no such 20fps bug for 1080p MKV files, can anyone confirm this as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharktooth

no... it's a bframes problem. since h.264 into avi needs a hack for bframes, that hack may as well (unwillingly?!?) fix the problem

Shark could you teach the way to remux a problematic MKV into AVI? I would like to check by myself if it definitely corrects the problem. No point in asking Cyberlink to correct the bug if it's not on their end. ^_^;
Thanks you.

dwswager · 9th October 2007, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner

DrNein, thanks for these details.
Is it possible for you to link me to one of those working 720p Matroska files that DO NOT have the 20fps bug when HA is enabled in the Cyberlink filter?
Or teach me how to create one?
I'm having a real tough time finding one that works at all, they either exhibit the 20fps bug or black-screen-on-play bug so far

720p/MKV/h264/24fps/VMR9 is apparently the bad combo for hardware acceleration with Cyberlink decoder.
I really hope there's a solution to this.
Thanks

TSR
edit: from what I read in other threads; there is no such 20fps bug for 1080p MKV files, can anyone confirm this as well?

Shark could you teach the way to remux a problematic MKV into AVI? I would like to check by myself if it definitely corrects the problem. No point in asking Cyberlink to correct the bug if it's not on their end. ^_^;
Thanks you.

Looking for a solution of some sort to playing my content. I have thus far been playing 480p AVC/AC-3 MKV files using FFDSHOW within Windows XP 2005 MCE interface. Unfortunately my HTPC does not have the HP to play 720p or 1080p AVC files with software only decoding. Hence, I went looking for video card acceleration. I can use PDVD to play MP4 AVC trailer from Nero site with accelleration, but PDVD chokes on all MKVs for me.

My computer is now encoding a series of test files with different x264 settings in both MP4 and MKV containers. My tools are MEGUI, x264, MKVMerge.

I'm looking for a solution to play SD and HD material. I'm not permanently married to MKV, though I would have preferred keeping AC-3 audio rather than using AAC. If I could find a solution that involved FFDSHOW to decode SD and PDVD to decode HD that would work, fine! I really thought that a autoplay HD DVD directory for both SD and HD material would be the solution, but if PDVD does not support B Frames then no go.

I do find it ironic that precisely the files that need acceleration for decode (high profile, high level) are the ones that the vendors chose not to support!

BTW, I spoke with a guy using Vista that swears he can use PDVD to play MKVs correctly. He seemed to think it is the EVR render in Vista that makes it possible. Considering that EVR has been hacked into XP with .NET 3.0, I might try it.

2nd September 2007, 09:26	#1 \| Link
RaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 32	Haali Splitter 20 FPS Bug Status H.264 HW/Accel Has there been any movement on the MKV 720P x264 20 FPS bug? Is there any alternative MKV Splitter, or is Haali the only option for MKV? It sure would be good to hear Haali's opinion on the bug - please give us all an update.

3rd October 2007, 15:33	#13 \| Link
Sharktooth Mr. Sandman Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Haddonfield, IL Posts: 11,768	no... it's a bframes problem. since h.264 into avi needs a hack for bframes, that hack may as well (unwillingly?!?) fix the problem __________________ MPEG-4 ASP Custom Matrices: EQM V1(old), EQM AutoGK Sharpmatrix (aka EQM V2), EQM V3HR (updated 01/10/2004), EQM V3LR, EQM V3ULR (updated 04/02/2005), EQM V3UHR (updated 17/12/2004) and EQM V3EHR (updated 05/10/2004) Info about my ASP matrices. MPEG-4 AVC Custom Matrices: EQM AVC-HR Info about my AVC matrices My x264 builds. Mooo!!!

2nd September 2007, 09:32	#2 \| Link
Dark Shikari x264 developer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 8,667	What bug is this? I have not heard of it.

2nd September 2007, 10:14	#3 \| Link
hekoheko Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 26	This is the biggest bug there is! Hope it gets fixed ASAP. PS: Concerns only DXVA playback with NVIDIA and ATI cards.

2nd September 2007, 12:22	#4 \| Link
arfster Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 169	There's a mkv splitter built into MPC, but it does exactly the same thing. Makes it more likely it's a bug with the PDVD decoder imo, and they don't support mkv - mail them asking for it!

2nd October 2007, 09:10	#7 \| Link
madshi Registered Developer Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,140	It's not the fault of MKV and not the fault of any MKV splitter. You can write 20 new MKV DirectShow filters and the problem will still be there. The problem has nothing to do with MKV. It's a problem between x264 encodes and h264 hardware accleration. You'd have the very same problem if you remuxed the problematic videos from MKV to MP4 or TS or in any other container.

2nd October 2007, 14:45	#9 \| Link
adspence Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6	Not 100% sure this is the same thing, but I have a problem when running mkv's with the Cyberlink H264 codec. It drops frames, and not because there is a CPU issue (its only using around 20%). This is why I have to use CoreAVC instead, it works reliably.

3rd October 2007, 06:21	#11 \| Link
TheShadowRunner Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 399	Clearly it is not a Haali splitter bug since i don't use it and experience the bug :/ My bet on the source of the 20fps bug goes on the way the pdvd codec communicates with the vmr9 renderer... Maybe a petition for Cyberlink to correct the bug would help ^^

3rd October 2007, 13:48	#12 \| Link
Demone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 123	I for a moment thought it was not splitter fault but strange enought when remuxing those 20fps bug x264 into avi they work like a charme. Could it be a timecode problem ? Then there is the black screen problem and some ppl say that changing the bframe setting of x264 encoder is the solution

3rd October 2007, 18:07	#14 \| Link
TheShadowRunner Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 399	I'm not sure it's a bframe problem. Please see the last answers to this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1051356 Maybe a VMR9 deinterlacing bug..?

3rd October 2007, 18:37	#15 \| Link
Demone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 123	Its said that cl264dec.ax older versions dont produce black screen I have a x264 clip that doesnt start with black frames like every movie and it freezes showing black upon play, but if I grab and move mplayerc window there is a forced refresh of the vmr surface and the first frame appears, just to tell you that it seems that after the first frame the graph freezes but the video stream informations are gained correctly, infact the player window is resized to actual video sizes........but doesnt play

3rd October 2007, 18:44	#16 \| Link
TheShadowRunner Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 399	Demone, do you know if cl264dec.ax version 2.0.0.1904 is the latest one by any chance?

3rd October 2007, 19:42	#17 \| Link
Demone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 123	I think its the last one but check this page: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/downl...s_112_ENU.html This is an interesting thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...73218&page=100

4th October 2007, 14:37	#18 \| Link
DrNein Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 145	Encoding with x264 using certain options to produce non-standard (H.264/AVC) output is the main problem. Unfortunately, most of the files we are likely to encounter have been done wrong (presumably because, ironically, most people encoding are playing back with non-DxVA capable hardware and thus limiting output to 720 so that software decoders can manage). I have not come across any which when demuxed did not still exhibit the framerate defect so the container is not usually an issue. However, Matroska is also sometimes to blame since some older x264/MKV files which do not exhibit the framerate defect with older splitter versions (such as integrated into MPC) do so with later and the current Haali/Matroska splitter.