Flash Player to include AVC and AAC and MP4 and TTXT support

bond · 21st August 2007, 21:09

a big step for the mpeg-4 standard

Adobe announced that it will support the following parts of the mpeg-4 standard (and more) in an upcoming update to their flash player:

Quote:

- AVC: A software based H.264 codec with the ability to decode Base, Mainline and High profiles...Extended, High 4:2:2 and High 4:4:4 profiles are not officially supported at this time. They might or might not work depending on what features are used. We have no artificial lower limit on B-frames or any problems with B-pyramids like other players do. We also decode field coded streams...the H.264 decoder is...provided to us by MainConcept. It weights in at less than 100KB of compressed code
- AAC: An AAC decoder supporting AAC Main, AAC LC and SBR (also known as HE-AAC). The corresponding ISO specification is ISO 14496-3.
- MP4: An file format parser implementing parts of ISO 14496-12. In terms you might understand this means a very limited sub set of MPEG-4, 3GP and QuickTime movie support.
- TTXT: Support for the 3GPP timed text specification 3GPP TS 26.245. Essentially this is a standardized subtitle format within 3GP files...Any number of text tracks are supported and all the information, including esoteric stuff like karaoke meta data...Language information in the individual tracks is also reported. That means you can have sub titles in several languages.

for the details read more here:
http://www.kaourantin.net/2007/08/wh...on-web_20.html (thanks to Drachir for pointing me to it) and here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129118

a beta version is available here:
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer9/

everything needs to have a downside:
1) mpeg-4 asp (divx, xvid) will not be supported
2) mpeg-4 systems advanced content (basically an open standard alternative to advanced flash content) is not supported
2) the flash player will only support mp4+avc+aac files streamed via adobe servers (but afaik this is the case with all flash content)

As being open standard you should be able to create supported streams with the following free tools:
AVC: x264 and all tools using x264
AAC: faac and all tools using faac
MP4: mp4box, mp4creator, ffmpeg
TTXT: mp4box

Dark Shikari · 21st August 2007, 21:20

Sweet.

Schrade · 22nd August 2007, 01:59

They have a link to test out the flashplayer once you install it. Here's the link: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...ullscreendemo/

It has a streaming video that is 1280x720 in it and it's an MP4 container. You can switch between that or the On2 VP6 encode.

Unsurprisingly, it chows up all my CPU when playing the h.264 encode. I have an AMD Athlon XP 2400+. They need to license CoreAVC or something to make this work right.

Kurtnoise · 22nd August 2007, 06:20

What about the GPAX ?

btw, it's definitely the end of story for the Ogg/Theora.

Dark Shikari · 22nd August 2007, 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

What about the GPAX ?

btw, it's definitely the end of story for the Ogg/Theora.

Definitely not, Ogg/Theora serve a particular purpose; they have no royalties. Both H.264 and AAC have royalties, even if most people don't pay them.

Wikipedia, for example, one of the top 10 most popular websites in the world, uses Ogg and Theora exclusively, and as the web moves towards more rich media, they will stick with that simply for legal reasons.

Schrade · 22nd August 2007, 06:42

Does GPAC's plugin have any controls at all yet? Last time I checked it was similar to VLC's plugin I think.. just a video playing, no volume control, no seeking/stop/play/pause controls, etc.

iwod · 22nd August 2007, 07:13

I am now wondering if the Decoder will support Hardware acceleration. But 100K H.264 decoder is pretty amazing

Kurtnoise · 22nd August 2007, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

Definitely not, Ogg/Theora serve a particular purpose; they have no royalties. Both H.264 and AAC have royalties, even if most people don't pay them.

In fact, nothing have been proved that Xiph tools are patents free. Anyway, I tend to agree with you on this point. I missed that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Shikari

Wikipedia, for example, one of the top 10 most popular websites in the world, uses Ogg and Theora exclusively, and as the web moves towards more rich media, they will stick with that simply for legal reasons.

Well, what about the nine others ? wikipedia is very special for the contents hosted and proposed on it. It's definitely not a commercial website.

GmorG McRoth · 22nd August 2007, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrade

They have a link to test out the flashplayer once you install it. Here's the link: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...ullscreendemo/

If anyone wants to check videos without flash player:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...HD_1500_96.flv
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...in_HD_H264.mp4

Is there a way to know what encoder was used to create h.264 file?

CruNcher · 22nd August 2007, 11:29

the thing is ON2 just compares it with VP6 so in practicaly they still claim that VP7 is more advanced then

Mc Onyx · 22nd August 2007, 11:56

Tried the flash link and it looks great, finally some good looking streaming. But the h.264 stream does look better than vp6 and it takes about 25-40% of my cpu time C2D@3.15Ghz.

Kurtnoise · 22nd August 2007, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmorG McRoth

Is there a way to know what encoder was used to create h.264 file?

Probably the Mainconcept's one...

GmorG McRoth · 22nd August 2007, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

Probably the Mainconcept's one...

Indeed, this is plausible.

clsid · 22nd August 2007, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmorG McRoth

If anyone wants to check videos without flash player:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...HD_1500_96.flv
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...in_HD_H264.mp4

This MP4 file plays great with Haali's splitter. I am glad Adobe didn't use a new proprietary container.

The FLV file on the other hand doesn't play properly with Gabest FLV splitter. The video track is not recognized

I hope someone can fix this before the new Flash version hits the mass public. Perhaps it only requires a small patch, since the file does seem to contain a normal FLV4 (VP6) video stream, at least that is what GSpot tells me.

smok3 · 22nd August 2007, 13:40

wow and wow.

and yes, just tested: things encoded using x.264 + nero aac inside mp4 are working!

short sample (had to rename the mp4 file to flv):
http://somestuff.org/flashAVC/flvplayer.php
(something weird happening on cuts thought, i guess thats why this is beta)

agilpwc · 22nd August 2007, 16:10

This pretty much eliminates the need for QuickTime.

From reading the press release it looks like it will support more encode options, unlike QuickTime.

Shapierian · 22nd August 2007, 20:47

I find the inclusion of the rarely used AAC Main profile odd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bond

...
- AAC: An AAC decoder supporting AAC Main, AAC LC and SBR (also known as HE-AAC). The corresponding ISO specification is ISO 14496-3.
...

Sergey A. Sablin · 22nd August 2007, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtnoise13

Probably the Mainconcept's one...

level 5.1 for 720p and 2 refs, no aspect ratio parameters, no hrd parameters and many smaller details makes me think something different...

bond · 22nd August 2007, 22:43

vp6 didnt handle to beat xvid (mpeg-4 asp), so i heavily doubt it has any chance against a serious avc encoder at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmorG McRoth

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...in_HD_H264.mp4

Is there a way to know what encoder was used to create h.264 file?

the mp4 mentions apple media video and audio handler, so i assume it has been encoded with apple's avc and aac encoders

Sergey A. Sablin · 22nd August 2007, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by bond

vp6 didnt handle to beat xvid (mpeg-4 asp), so i heavily doubt it has any chance against a serious avc encoder at all

the mp4 mentions apple media video and audio handler, so i assume it has been encoded with apple's avc and aac encoders

Is it you bond? Something strange happens to you...
Have a try to open stream in hex editor. You should know key word.

22nd August 2007, 01:59	#3 \| Link
Schrade Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 339	They have a link to test out the flashplayer once you install it. Here's the link: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/f...ullscreendemo/ It has a streaming video that is 1280x720 in it and it's an MP4 container. You can switch between that or the On2 VP6 encode. Unsurprisingly, it chows up all my CPU when playing the h.264 encode. I have an AMD Athlon XP 2400+. They need to license CoreAVC or something to make this work right. Last edited by Schrade; 22nd August 2007 at 02:02.

22nd August 2007, 11:29	#10 \| Link
CruNcher Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 4,926	the thing is ON2 just compares it with VP6 so in practicaly they still claim that VP7 is more advanced then __________________ all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :) It is about Time Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late ! http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004

22nd August 2007, 11:56	#11 \| Link
Mc Onyx Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Slovenia Posts: 73	Tried the flash link and it looks great, finally some good looking streaming. But the h.264 stream does look better than vp6 and it takes about 25-40% of my cpu time C2D@3.15Ghz. __________________ If you need an MC on a party, I'm the man 4 you! :)

22nd August 2007, 13:40	#15 \| Link
smok3 brontosaurusrex Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,392	wow and wow. and yes, just tested: things encoded using x.264 + nero aac inside mp4 are working! short sample (had to rename the mp4 file to flv): http://somestuff.org/flashAVC/flvplayer.php (something weird happening on cuts thought, i guess thats why this is beta) Last edited by smok3; 24th August 2007 at 15:05.

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21st August 2007, 21:20	#2 \| Link
Dark Shikari x264 developer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 8,666	Sweet.

22nd August 2007, 06:20	#4 \| Link
Kurtnoise Swallowed in the Sea Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Aix-en-Provence, France Posts: 5,191	What about the GPAX ? btw, it's definitely the end of story for the Ogg/Theora.

22nd August 2007, 06:42	#6 \| Link
Schrade Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 339	Does GPAC's plugin have any controls at all yet? Last time I checked it was similar to VLC's plugin I think.. just a video playing, no volume control, no seeking/stop/play/pause controls, etc.

22nd August 2007, 07:13	#7 \| Link
iwod Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 756	I am now wondering if the Decoder will support Hardware acceleration. But 100K H.264 decoder is pretty amazing

22nd August 2007, 16:10	#16 \| Link
agilpwc Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 28	This pretty much eliminates the need for QuickTime. From reading the press release it looks like it will support more encode options, unlike QuickTime.