Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA! - Page 315

STaRGaZeR · 11th February 2009, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

If you don't want look stupid, read Wiki at least

Right now it's you the one who look stupid. CoreAVC uses a dedicated ASIC present inside the GPU, not the shaders. It's accessed through CUDA. DGAVCDecNV uses the same method.

lexor · 11th February 2009, 18:44

@sneaker_ger: thank you very much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

If you don't want look stupid, read Wiki at least

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leak

Considering that there's no mention of video decoding in the official CUDA documentation I very much doubt that those decoders are using the dedicated video decoding hardware on the cards - I'd rather assume they'd implement a software decoder using the card's shader units.

And even then all people using ATI and Intel graphics chipsets would agree to disagree with "CUDA rendering DXVA useless"...

My info comes from neuron2's log of his discussion with Nvidia CUDA engineer. I'm sorry if I don't take both your sources as overruling.

Px · 11th February 2009, 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

CoreAVC uses a dedicated ASIC present inside the GPU, not the shaders.

Really? Then how you explain this post:

Quote:

- On 1080i HDTV with DVBViewer CUDA doesn't seem to work (as said above)
- On 720p MKV CUDA is working but the framerate is too slow
- On 1080p MKV CUDA is working with low CPU (<15%) but the framerate is very slow...

http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?p=8820#p8820

STaRGaZeR · 11th February 2009, 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

Really? Then how you explain this post:

http://forum.corecodec.com/viewtopic.php?p=8820#p8820

Yes, really.

Why should I know about CoreAVC bugs? I'm not a CoreAVC developer.

lexor · 11th February 2009, 19:08

Seriously, if you don't believe us, there is no need to argue, just go into h264 subforum and ask in the CoreAVC thread. Betaboy is pretty active there, now that there is a new release.

Px · 11th February 2009, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Why should I know about CoreAVC bugs?

So, that is a bug, and not the consequence of small quantity of shader units, ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by lexor

just go into h264 subforum and ask in the CoreAVC thread

You post information about ASIC, so you must prove this because it not follow from general information about CUDA

gngn · 11th February 2009, 19:24

after a quick check, the new CoreAVC presents the same limitations as DXVA with MPC-HC. especially SD with over 11ReFrames.
but you can use VSFilter for subs and postprocessing with ffdshow ...

lexor · 11th February 2009, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

You post information about ASIC, so you must prove this because it not follow from general information about CUDA

I don't owe you anything. Especially after your insulting first post on the subject.

If you do not feel that this is important enough to ask CoreAVC dev about, why should I do the work on your behalf? Especially since I already read what Nvidia engineer has to say on the subject, and therefore there is no further knowledge to be gained here for me.

STaRGaZeR · 11th February 2009, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

So, that is a bug, and not the consequence of small quantity of shader units, ok

Whatever floats your boat mate, this discussion is useless. Do some research before calling someone stupid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

You post information about ASIC, so you must prove this because it not follow from general information about CUDA

It's well know that it uses the internal ASIC accessed through CUDA, but you say it uses the shaders, so you should post information about how CoreAVC or DGAVCDecNV use the shaders. Please tell us how neuron2 or the CoreAVC developers have written a CUDA based decoder from scratch. It's a pity you won't find any info, because it doesn't exist.

Kado · 11th February 2009, 20:02

Well I tried it and using CUDA is the same as using MPC-HC DXVA because it uses the H.264 bitstream decoder. The difference is that you can use any renderer you want and still use the DXVA capabilities!
DXVA Checker still says that the CoreAVC filter does not support DXVA maybe because it accesses the Bitstream decoder differently, but if you start playback the icon goes green.
Since it uses the Bitstream decoder the card will not heat up (not that that was a problem for me because I have an Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme 9800 over my 9800GTX

)!

P.S.=> It seems that forceware 185.20 are not supported by CoreAVC because I had to downgrade to 182.05 to use CUDA.

[EDIT]Vobsub can now be used along with CUDA/DXVA.[/EDIT]
[EDIT2]Tried with EVA 1.01 H.264 and it gives a blocky image with weird colors and MPC-HC DXVA decoder using DXVA produces a normal picture.[/EDIT2]
[EDIT3]CoreAVC rule set to use or not DXVA is worser than MPC-HC decoder because it decodes 12 ref frame files giving corrupted playback.[/EDIT3]

Px · 11th February 2009, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

It's well know that it uses the internal ASIC accessed through CUDA, but you say it uses the shaders

CUDA is made to use shader blocks in general purpose computing, so when someone talking about acceleration with CUDA - it means the same.
But you claiming that not in this case - ok, I've read corresponding threads and see that "CUDA Decoder" is only interface to bitstream decoder, same as DXVA with same limitations
Ok, I've taking my words back

nitec · 11th February 2009, 21:47

Hi,

Guru3D released an article about MPC-HC and hardware video acceleration.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/accele...he-gpu-guide/1

Casimir666 · 11th February 2009, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The1n

Have you seen that an Intel representative is asking for your email address over at the intel devel forums, regarding G45 and MPC DXVA.

I really hope that they can help you fix this for MPC.

The1n

Ok thanks :-)

Snowknight26 · 11th February 2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitec

Guru3D released an article about MPC-HC and hardware video acceleration.

The whole article is a laugh.

STaRGaZeR · 12th February 2009, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Px

CUDA is made to use shader blocks in general purpose computing, so when someone talking about acceleration with CUDA - it means the same.
But you claiming that not in this case - ok, I've read corresponding threads and see that "CUDA Decoder" is only interface to bitstream decoder, same as DXVA with same limitations
Ok, I've taking my words back

No, it does not mean the same. VP2 is not a "shader block" and it can be accessed through CUDA. Shaders are general purpose units, while VP2 is a dedicated processor that can only do certain things in this case related to video decoding. That invalidates your claim.

DXVA does not use the shaders, it uses VPx (which is the ASIC embedded into the GPU we're talking about). CoreAVC and DGAVCDecNV use the same VPx processor to decode the video, but accessed through CUDA instead of the Microsoft API. This will result in the same problems/advantages that when using DXVA, with the benefit of not needing to connect the decoder to the renderer directly, and being renderer independent, which is a big plus. But if you try to play a file exceding the decoding capabilities of the VPx unit it'll show blockiness or any kind of visual glitches. That's the limitation of hardware decoders.

Px · 12th February 2009, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

No, it does not mean the same.

In all cases, except this marketing stuff (Let's use cool name CUDA!!!111) it means the same

THX-UltraII · 12th February 2009, 09:33

Anyone heard from Beliyaal anything? I saw that his last post dates from the 4th of this month. Anyone know if he is still working on new MPC-HC patches?

THX-UltraII · 12th February 2009, 13:00

and another question about the ac3filter that untill now cannot be answered on the AVS, videotech or AC#filter forum. Always keep in mind that I want just passthrough of SPDIF and NO decoding being done by AC3filter:

1.
When I play regular dvd's (VIDEO_TS folders with included .vob files) SPDIF passthrough work great (sample 1). I can see in the Decoder info that the sound is only beeing passed through by AC3 filter and that the filter does not decode it.

2.
When I play HD content, it gets different. Playing .mkv files gives my also SPDIF passthrough (sample 2). But playing my .wmv material, the ac3 filter has to decode it (sample 3) or else I do not see Dolby Digital on my receiver display. I know this has something to do with how the movie was ripped and decoded. Also also see that the presented signal is PCM. I would like to know if these kind of files (where the audio is presented in PCM) can be played in some way that my receiver does the decoding.

Before asking more questions, Ill first post this one, one thing at a time

sample 1:

Quote:

Input format: MPEG Program Stream - 48000
User format: PCM24 - 0
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: SPDIF passthrough
SPDIF passthrough for: MPA AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Do not check SPDIF sample rate
Do not query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(MPEG Program Stream - 48000) -> Demux -> (AC3 - 48000) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Demux:
-

Spdifer:
Stream format: AC3 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
Bitstream type: byte stream
Frame size: 1536
Samples: 1536
Bitrate: 384kbps
SPDIF stream type: 0x1
Frame interval: 1536
Actual bitrate: 384kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
SPDIF format: wrapped
Bitstream: 16bit LE
Frame size: 6144

Dejitter:
-

sample 2:

Quote:

Input format: DTS - 48000
User format: PCM24 - 0
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: SPDIF passthrough
SPDIF passthrough for: MPA AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Do not check SPDIF sample rate
Do not query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(DTS - 48000) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Spdifer:
Stream format: DTS 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
Bitstream type: 16bit big endian
Frame size: free format
Samples: 512
Bitrate: unknown
SPDIF stream type: 0xb
Frame interval: 2012
Actual bitrate: 1509kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
SPDIF format: wrapped
Bitstream: 16bit LE
Frame size: 2048

Dejitter:
-

sample 3:

Quote:

Input format: PCM24 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000
User format: PCM24 - 0
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000

Use SPDIF
SPDIF status: AC3 encode
SPDIF passthrough for: MPA AC3 DTS
Use AC3 encoder (encode stereo PCM)
Do not check SPDIF sample rate
Do not query for SPDIF output support

Decoding chain:
(PCM24 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Processor -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Encoder -> (AC3 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Spdifer -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Dejitter -> (SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000)

Filters info (in order of processing):

Processor:
(PCM24 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> PCM->Linear converter -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Input levels -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Equalizer -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> SRC -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Mixer -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Bass redirection -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Dither -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> AGC -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Delay -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Spectrum -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000) -> Output levels -> (Linear PCM 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000)

Encoder:
-

Spdifer:
Stream format: AC3 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
Bitstream type: byte stream
Frame size: 2560
Samples: 1536
Bitrate: 640kbps
SPDIF stream type: 0x1
Frame interval: 2560
Actual bitrate: 640kbps
Output format: SPDIF 3/2.1 (5.1) 48000Hz
SPDIF format: wrapped
Bitstream: 16bit LE
Frame size: 6144

Dejitter:
-

japa · 12th February 2009, 13:21

I have a problem with subtitles, some characters are not displayed correctly... Can anyone help me?

Casshern · 12th February 2009, 14:08

Hi,

i think this is a AC3Filter related question - and has nothing to do with MPC HC. But let me try to answer: wmv is a container format and often contains audio encoded with microsofts audio codec. Most receivers cannot decode this format - so it has to be decoded by the pc first. If its decoded its in PCM. From this point there are soime alternative:
1) Mix it down to stereo and transfer it as such over SP/DIF to the receiver
2) Use a number of analog connections to get the multichannel sound to the receiver
3) Reencode the PCM to AC3 and then pass the multichannel sound to the receiver. Most receivers can handle AC3

You can configure ac3filter on what to do if it gets passed the alread decoded pcm channels. The decoding to pcm is done by microsofts directshow filters before ac3filter.

I hope this answers you question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

and another question about the ac3filter that untill now cannot be answered on the AVS, videotech or AC#filter forum. Always keep in mind that I want just passthrough of SPDIF and NO decoding being done by AC3filter:

1.
When I play regular dvd's (VIDEO_TS folders with included .vob files) SPDIF passthrough work great (sample 1). I can see in the Decoder info that the sound is only beeing passed through by AC3 filter and that the filter does not decode it.

2.
When I play HD content, it gets different. Playing .mkv files gives my also SPDIF passthrough (sample 2). But playing my .wmv material, the ac3 filter has to decode it (sample 3) or else I do not see Dolby Digital on my receiver display. I know this has something to do with how the movie was ripped and decoded. Also also see that the presented signal is PCM. I would like to know if these kind of files (where the audio is presented in PCM) can be played in some way that my receiver does the decoding.

Before asking more questions, Ill first post this one, one thing at a time

sample 1:

sample 2:

sample 3:

11th February 2009, 19:08	#6285 \| Link
lexor Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 849	Seriously, if you don't believe us, there is no need to argue, just go into h264 subforum and ask in the CoreAVC thread. Betaboy is pretty active there, now that there is a new release. __________________ Geforce GTX 260 Windows 7, 64bit, Core i7 MPC-HC, Foobar2000 Last edited by lexor; 11th February 2009 at 19:13.

11th February 2009, 19:24	#6287 \| Link
gngn the hedgehog Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 163	after a quick check, the new CoreAVC presents the same limitations as DXVA with MPC-HC. especially SD with over 11ReFrames. but you can use VSFilter for subs and postprocessing with ffdshow ... __________________ Athlonx2@2,9Ghz,2G DDRAM2@800Mhz,WinXPSP3 x86,GF8600GTS-256M,Nvidiadrivers 295.73 latest MPC-HC (MVS2010 SP1, GCC 4.7.1) VMR9renderless+VMR9MixerMode+YUVMixing,VSync+AccurateVSync,all GPUflushes on Last edited by gngn; 11th February 2009 at 19:52.

11th February 2009, 20:02	#6290 \| Link
Kado Otaku Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portugal Posts: 576	Well I tried it and using CUDA is the same as using MPC-HC DXVA because it uses the H.264 bitstream decoder. The difference is that you can use any renderer you want and still use the DXVA capabilities! DXVA Checker still says that the CoreAVC filter does not support DXVA maybe because it accesses the Bitstream decoder differently, but if you start playback the icon goes green. Since it uses the Bitstream decoder the card will not heat up (not that that was a problem for me because I have an Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme 9800 over my 9800GTX)! P.S.=> It seems that forceware 185.20 are not supported by CoreAVC because I had to downgrade to 182.05 to use CUDA. [EDIT]Vobsub can now be used along with CUDA/DXVA.[/EDIT] [EDIT2]Tried with EVA 1.01 H.264 and it gives a blocky image with weird colors and MPC-HC DXVA decoder using DXVA produces a normal picture.[/EDIT2] [EDIT3]CoreAVC rule set to use or not DXVA is worser than MPC-HC decoder because it decodes 12 ref frame files giving corrupted playback.[/EDIT3] __________________ In the school, the three guys met. Their relation had been changed in the season, and turned into three love stories. System Specs Last edited by Kado; 11th February 2009 at 21:21.

11th February 2009, 21:47	#6292 \| Link
nitec Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 10	Hi, Guru3D released an article about MPC-HC and hardware video acceleration. http://www.guru3d.com/article/accele...he-gpu-guide/1

12th February 2009, 09:33	#6297 \| Link
THX-UltraII Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 851	Anyone heard from Beliyaal anything? I saw that his last post dates from the 4th of this month. Anyone know if he is still working on new MPC-HC patches?

12th February 2009, 13:21	#6299 \| Link
japa Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6	I have a problem with subtitles, some characters are not displayed correctly... Can anyone help me?