My firewire/1394 woes

stroup · 10th March 2007, 08:00

Do you ever have those days where you just feel like tossing your computer off a 5 story building. Well I've been having several of those days.

It all started back in January when Windows XP just stopped recognizing my Panasonic PV-GS31 miniDV camera. It was working perfecting, never gave me any problems. I thought maybe the pins in the front panel IEEE1394 port were bent or something. Then I noticed the pins in the DV out on the camera looked bent. Assuming this was the culprit I attempted to bend the pins back. I busted the DV out port on the camera so it was useless now. I'd been wanting to get a different camera anyway, so this was a good excuse to find one. Still assuming the bent pins were the problem, I purchased a new camera. It's a Canon Elura 100. Excited to try it out and transfer some videos I'd made over to the computer, I plugged in the firewire cable. Nothing. No beeps, camera icons, nothing. So I opened the manual and followed the instructions to the letter. Still, nothing worked. I forgot I had a second IEEE1394 port in the back of my computer, so I plugged it into that port. Again, no response.

My next thought was maybe a bad cable. It did cost like $5. So I bought a $25 Belkin cable. Again, no help there. Totally at a loss, I purchased a Bytecc PCIe firewire card. It came with a firewire cable so I used that just to eliminate the possibility that the belkin cable was bad. In the end, I am still stuck at square one.

I decided to do a system format and start with a fresh install of Windows XP. Once again, in the end, my efforts were in vain.

Either I am facing a very unlikely set of circumstances here or my IEEE1394 ports are cursed. I am so far beyond stumped I don't think I can get unstumped. Since I have no other firewire devices or other computers with firewire ports, I have no way to test the camera anywhere else.

I'd really appreciate any input, even if you have to say this is a mystery to you as well.

setarip_old · 10th March 2007, 08:22

I'm certainly not a hardware tech (Or any other kind of tech, for that matter ;>}), however, based on what you've already done, by a process of elimination, it seems that your problem must be the hardware that's "inside the box" - somewhere between the ports and their ultimate connections to the motherboard.

If, like me, you're NOT a tech, I'd suggest you have a "pro" open up your computer's case and examine its innards...

Video Dude · 10th March 2007, 15:43

Did you check if Device Manager is showing any problems or if the firewire card is being seen?

jeffy · 10th March 2007, 16:04

First, check if it is present in Device Manager, then look for any exclamation marks there:
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems.htm#if

EDIT:
General troubleshooting
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314873/en-us
/EDIT

Other links:
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems2.htm#fwsp2
http://kadaitcha.cx/firewire.html
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems.htm#firewire

Suggestion:
take your camera where you bought it or to a near PC shop and ask them nicely if they could verify Firewire is working ok

stroup · 10th March 2007, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by setarip_old

If, like me, you're NOT a tech, I'd suggest you have a "pro" open up your computer's case and examine its innards...

I built this computer myself so I pretty much know it inside and out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Video Dude

Did you check if Device Manager is showing any problems or if the firewire card is being seen?

I've just opened Device Manager and under "IEEE 1394 bus host controllers" I show 2 entries that both say "Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host controller". That would make sense because I have the front panel firewire port plugged into the MB firewire header, and I have an integrated firewire port on the back side. The MB has a TI 1394 chipset. However, I see no signs of the card I installed. Device manager doesn't show anything at all. I do have a power plug connected to the card. I have tried different plugs to eliminate the possibility that one might be bad.

If the card is a DOA, then would XP even detect there was a card in the PCIe slot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffy

First, check if it is present in Device Manager, then look for any exclamation marks there:

EDIT:
General troubleshooting
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314873/en-us
/EDIT

Other links:
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems2.htm#fwsp2
http://kadaitcha.cx/firewire.html
http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems.htm#firewire

Suggestion:
take your camera where you bought it or to a near PC shop and ask them nicely if they could verify Firewire is working ok

Yeah I've already read all the website you've listed. I guess BestBuy could plug it into one of their computers to see if it works.

EDIT: I just took out the card and booted up the computer. Every device on my computer was being recognized and reinstalled. This includes hard drives, cd/dvd drives, usb ports, video card, floppy drives, everything. I have no idea what that was all about. Anyway, now that the card is out, there is now only 1 firewire entry under the device manager. I looked at the card and apparently the card also uses a TI chipset. I don't know if any of this info will prove helpful.

jeffy · 10th March 2007, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroup

Anyway, now that the card is out, there is now only 1 firewire entry under the device manager. I looked at the card and apparently the card also uses a TI chipset. I don't know if any of this info will prove helpful.

It should prove that the card is being recognized, however there is still a possibility it is not working correctly. I saw a PCI TV tuner, which was recognized etc., but not working. The funny thing was: all eight drivers it needed were demanded and installed automatically.

The card might be ok, but...

Unfortunately, you are not the only one. Right here, in the last post, another user has the same problem with the same make and model you have: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/t127214.html

If this is your post, you might have other hardware problems with the motherboard itself, something might have been damaged as the poster stated:
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=323748

The board they mention, probably has FW problems as well:
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread...light=firewire
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread...light=firewire

What is weird, your PCIe card failed as well. I would give it one more shot, try to disable an onboard Firewire in BIOS and reinstall PCIe card once again. If no joy, I am afraid that either the cam is bad or the motherboard is ready to RMA.

stroup · 11th March 2007, 00:37

I disabled the 1394 port both in Device Manager and in the BIOS, just to be thorough. Installed the card, and it was recognized. But unfortunately the camera did not show up.

I'm starting to believe this is a problem with the camera. After reading all the threads you gave me links to, and with the number of people who seem to have the same common problem, it sure seems like firewire isn't very reliable. They work for a while then mysteriously go dead.

Thanks jeffy for all your help. The links were helpful.

jeffy · 11th March 2007, 05:35

I was disappointed reading the following page describing firewire voltage problems with some cards, due to improper implementation:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/tec...fw800alert.htm

This one wasn't better, this time OS:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800sp2.htm

I'm glad the previous links were sort of helpful. Please, come back if you find out what is the cause.

EDIT:
After digging the Videohelp post info, I was again unplesantly surprised:
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=20
/EDIT

10th March 2007, 08:00	#1 \| Link
stroup Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20	My firewire/1394 woes Do you ever have those days where you just feel like tossing your computer off a 5 story building. Well I've been having several of those days. It all started back in January when Windows XP just stopped recognizing my Panasonic PV-GS31 miniDV camera. It was working perfecting, never gave me any problems. I thought maybe the pins in the front panel IEEE1394 port were bent or something. Then I noticed the pins in the DV out on the camera looked bent. Assuming this was the culprit I attempted to bend the pins back. I busted the DV out port on the camera so it was useless now. I'd been wanting to get a different camera anyway, so this was a good excuse to find one. Still assuming the bent pins were the problem, I purchased a new camera. It's a Canon Elura 100. Excited to try it out and transfer some videos I'd made over to the computer, I plugged in the firewire cable. Nothing. No beeps, camera icons, nothing. So I opened the manual and followed the instructions to the letter. Still, nothing worked. I forgot I had a second IEEE1394 port in the back of my computer, so I plugged it into that port. Again, no response. My next thought was maybe a bad cable. It did cost like $5. So I bought a $25 Belkin cable. Again, no help there. Totally at a loss, I purchased a Bytecc PCIe firewire card. It came with a firewire cable so I used that just to eliminate the possibility that the belkin cable was bad. In the end, I am still stuck at square one. I decided to do a system format and start with a fresh install of Windows XP. Once again, in the end, my efforts were in vain. Either I am facing a very unlikely set of circumstances here or my IEEE1394 ports are cursed. I am so far beyond stumped I don't think I can get unstumped. Since I have no other firewire devices or other computers with firewire ports, I have no way to test the camera anywhere else. I'd really appreciate any input, even if you have to say this is a mystery to you as well.

10th March 2007, 16:04	#4 \| Link
jeffy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 943	Troubleshooting resources First, check if it is present in Device Manager, then look for any exclamation marks there: http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems.htm#if EDIT: General troubleshooting http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314873/en-us /EDIT Other links: http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems2.htm#fwsp2 http://kadaitcha.cx/firewire.html http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USBProblems.htm#firewire Suggestion: take your camera where you bought it or to a near PC shop and ask them nicely if they could verify Firewire is working ok Last edited by jeffy; 10th March 2007 at 16:09.

11th March 2007, 05:35	#8 \| Link
jeffy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 943	I was disappointed reading the following page describing firewire voltage problems with some cards, due to improper implementation: http://www.rme-audio.com/english/tec...fw800alert.htm This one wasn't better, this time OS: http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800sp2.htm I'm glad the previous links were sort of helpful. Please, come back if you find out what is the cause. EDIT: After digging the Videohelp post info, I was again unplesantly surprised: http://forum.abit-usa.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=20 /EDIT Last edited by jeffy; 11th March 2007 at 05:50.

10th March 2007, 08:22	#2 \| Link
setarip_old Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 16,267	I'm certainly not a hardware tech (Or any other kind of tech, for that matter ;>}), however, based on what you've already done, by a process of elimination, it seems that your problem must be the hardware that's "inside the box" - somewhere between the ports and their ultimate connections to the motherboard. If, like me, you're NOT a tech, I'd suggest you have a "pro" open up your computer's case and examine its innards...

10th March 2007, 15:43	#3 \| Link
Video Dude Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,055	Did you check if Device Manager is showing any problems or if the firewire card is being seen?

11th March 2007, 00:37	#7 \| Link
stroup Registered User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 20	I disabled the 1394 port both in Device Manager and in the BIOS, just to be thorough. Installed the card, and it was recognized. But unfortunately the camera did not show up. I'm starting to believe this is a problem with the camera. After reading all the threads you gave me links to, and with the number of people who seem to have the same common problem, it sure seems like firewire isn't very reliable. They work for a while then mysteriously go dead. Thanks jeffy for all your help. The links were helpful.